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LittleGun wrote:A few months ago, I visited friends in Arizona which allows open carry. I asked them if they ever open carried? They told me that they never open carry and that they have never seen anyone open carrying. During my brief visit, I did not see anyone open carrying.

Being born and raised in Missouri which allows open carry unless outlawed by city ordinance, I can tell you open carry is rare, even in the rural areas. I grew up in a town of about 15,000. This town was the county seat and drew a large amount of folks from the county and surrounding counties for shopping and food. The biggest reason was we had the only Wal-Mart for many miles.

In my 34 years in that part of Southeast Missouri, including 4 years as an active Reserve LEO, I can count on one hand the times I saw anyone open carrying. However, I can tell you of two instances of 'displaying a weapon in a threatening manner' or 'brandishing' and two 'man with a gun' calls while I was a LEO.

One call I had forgotten about was funny, but could have ended badly. We had a guy in town who was mentally challenged and they called him Tex. The reason was he would be seen around his neighborhood wearing a kids cowboy hat and a double holster belt with cap guns. You pretty easily tell the cap guns were toys, even from a distance. Almost everyone in town, especially in his neighborhood knew Tex and he never bothered anyone, so he was left alone for the most part.

One afternoon we got a 'man with a gun call' from the bank. We had a new officer in town, and he was dispatched. About that time the bank called back and told the dispatcher it was Tex. We barely got word to the officer that if the man was short, dark headed, heavy set and wearing a red kid's cowboy hat and western gun belt with two silver guns he was NOT a threat. The officer was just heading in the doors, gun drawn, when he got the information on the radio. Also, two or three of the bank employees who knew Tex were talking to him and in between the officer and the door. We found out that about 3 minutes earlier Tex had been out in front of the bank waving his guns around, thus promoting someone who didn't know him to call.

Another recent (within the past year) I am familiar with was a 'man with a gun' call on an individual who DID have a real gun. The grocery store called and wanted him removed. He was not bothering anyone, but just having someone in the store with a gun showing was upsetting them and the patrons in the store. When the officer went in, the guy was apparently mentally disturbed and kept moving away from them yelling 'You can't have my gun, it's mine'. They told him he either had to leave the store or they would arrest him, all the time with their guns drawn. He finally settled down and left the store. He was advised to NOT carry his weapon in any other stores or risk the same type of reaction.

So, all in all, no matter if it is legal or not, it is NOT often practiced, even as much as the folks on from the open carry movement would like you to think, and WILL cause problems.

And yes Flint, this is definitely

flintknapper wrote:

You got me; I'll quit. But you see, the man tired to kill me. I was drinking coffee when I read the "anti-gun Texans" and almost choked to death!

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

flintknapper wrote:

You got me; I'll quit. But you see, the man tired to kill me. I was drinking coffee when I read the "anti-gun Texans" and almost choked to death!

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

roberts wrote:I have been to other states where open carry is legal and there's no problems but I think most Texans are too antigun and antifreedom to tolerate the CHOICE to open carry.

I've been here all my 59 years and I couldn't disagree more. I have no idea why you feel this way, but you obviously do. Do you live in Texas?

I do now but used to live in other states that allowed open carry. I keep hearing from Texas gun owners that legalizing open carry is a bad idea because shops will post signs banning open and concealed carry and there will be 911 calls every five minutes if anyone open carried in Texas. I didn't see those reactions in other states where I open carried so maybe those gun owners are wrong and open carry in Texas would cause no real problems but they lived here longer so I gave them the benefit of the doubt that they're right and Texans are more antigun than people in other states I lived.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:As for carrying openly without problems in other states, I think a review of OpenCarry.org indicates many people have problems, more so in urban areas than in rural areas.

I never saw those kind of problems myself when I open carried and I never heard those kind of problems from friends who open carried. That doesn't mean they didn't happen. It's like some people have problems with cops during traffic stops but I have been pulled over for speeding 8 times in my life and never been searched or beaten or arrested.

roberts wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:As for carrying openly without problems in other states, I think a review of OpenCarry.org indicates many people have problems, more so in urban areas than in rural areas.

I never saw those kind of problems myself when I open carried and I never heard those kind of problems from friends who open carried. That doesn't mean they didn't happen. It's like some people have problems with cops during traffic stops but I have been pulled over for speeding 8 times in my life and never been searched or beaten or arrested.

roberts,

What states did you open carry in? And was it in a metropolitan area or rural? These factors make big differences. Carrying in a state that is legal in a rural area where everyone wears John Deere caps and has a gun rack in the back window of their truck is going to be far easier to do than walking past a BMW SUV in a parking lot of the mall where a soccer mom is getting her kid out and she sees your gun, legal or not. I grew up in a John Deere cap area. I could have gotten by open carrying in the farming communities, but you go into the small towns and you will get called on. It happens when they got folks carrying. IMO, trying to get something allowed and passed into law in a state where it has never been allowed is going to be near impossible to get accomplished. Even if it would get passed by chance, I think there will be so many prohibited locations and capabilities to prohibit open carry that it will be a nightmare to even try it.

roberts wrote:I never saw those kind of problems myself when I open carried and I never heard those kind of problems from friends who open carried. That doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Cool. I'll be in VA next week - home of the OC.org folks. I'll meet you for dinner one night in Alexandria at my favorite place (219), it's on King St. about a block or so from the water). We can do Warehouse if you prefer. We can have drinks and dinner then go for a walk, maybe swing into Books a Million and check out the latest selection of gun mags. Or just stay in Springfield and hit Mike's for a martini, ribeye, and the great dinner rolls. If youi're on the other side of town, Russia House in Herndon works for me.

Give me a shout via the forum. BTW, I've never seen even 1 person OC'ing in VA and I do go there a lot, much like our host the esteemed Mr. Cotton.

I'd love to have a conversation w/ you "OC is ok folks" over a leisurely dinner.

ETA, bring a nice gun to OC. You know a BBQ gun. I don't want you to OC some low class Jennings.

gmckinl wrote:

roberts wrote:I never saw those kind of problems myself when I open carried and I never heard those kind of problems from friends who open carried. That doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Cool. I'll be in VA next week - home of the OC.org folks. I'll meet you for dinner one night in Alexandria at my favorite place (219), it's on King St. about a block or so from the water). We can do Warehouse if you prefer. We can have drinks and dinner then go for a walk, maybe swing into Books a Million and check out the latest selection of gun mags. Or just stay in Springfield and hit Mike's for a martini, ribeye, and the great dinner rolls. If youi're on the other side of town, Russia House in Herndon works for me.

Give me a shout via the forum. BTW, I've never seen even 1 person OC'ing in VA and I do go there a lot, much like our host the esteemed Mr. Cotton.

I'd love to have a conversation w/ you "OC is ok folks" over a leisurely dinner.

ETA, bring a nice gun to OC. You know a BBQ gun. I don't want you to OC some low class Jennings.

Can I come too?

long drive just to watch a guy eat crow at one on them "fancy" restaruants.

LittleGun wrote:A few months ago, I visited friends in Arizona which allows open carry. I asked them if they ever open carried? They told me that they never open carry and that they have never seen anyone open carrying. During my brief visit, I did not see anyone open carrying.

I used to travel to Phoenix for business quite regularly about ten years ago. Our office was in one of the less desirable areas of Phoenix, and I used to see normal folks open-carry all the time. Nobody seemed to care, and it seems to be rather accepted there with the people I saw carrying openly.

That being said, until recently, I spent about five years living in Kansas, and at least on a state level they theoretically allow open carry. However, it is very uncommon for anyone to carry openly, and I remember reading an interview with a LEO who stated, when asked about open-carry, that although it isn't illegal per se, it would definitely get you stopped and questioned. To quote my CHL instructor, "You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride."

Personally I'm in favor of open-carry, but I doubt it will pass.

longtooth wrote:long drive just to watch a guy eat crow at one on them "fancy" restaruants.

True but if he's local he should accept gmckinl's gracious offer to buy dinner at one of those fine establishments.

Just my thoughts,A well regulated Militia,being necessary to the security of a free State,the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,shall not be infringed.
Does the second ammendment say where we can keep and bear our arms? No it does not. If I want to keep and bear arms in my house so be it. If I want to wear a pistol hat, so be it. If I want to keep and bear arms either hidden or concealed so be it. Why not just let the wording of our forefathers stand?
If our state passed an open carry law I would not open carry. I would not open carry for my own reasons. If Joe smith wants to open carry so be it.

Here are my general thoughts on open carry...I brought this subject up with my CHL instructor a few weeks ago and he's against the idea, but here's why I'm for it:

My CHL instructor said the big benefit of concealed carry is that the bad guys don't know if you're packing or not. If they see you packing, they will take measures to take you out first, or they might try to get close to you and take your weapon from you before you're aware of the attack. Also, he's was afraid that businesses will start posting signs (similar to 30.06) to prohibit open carry and possibly concealed carry as well.

My response is that open carry can be a deterrent. My CHL instructor, who works for a popular gun range in Texas, frequently "open-carries" inside the range, just like the rest of the employees there. Why do they think it's okay for them to open-carry inside their place of employment (a gun range) but feel it's bad in general? His response seemed a little hypocritical, but I wasn't going to call him out on it when he was grading my test.

Secondly, as far as bad guys targeting you and taking your weapon away from you...I've been a student of martial arts for multiple years. In general, if you want to be good at self-defense (whether armed or unarmed), you need to be aware of your surroundings and not fall victim to being caught not paying attention. That applies whether you're carrying openly, concealed, or not carrying at all.

I like the idea of LICENSED open carry, because I like the fact that if you can get a license, you're a good guy. If a LEO sees you with a firearm carried openly, and they feel suspicious or uncomfortable, they could ask you for your license. You produce your plastic, which states you're a good guy, and you're okay.

Finally, open-carry works well in several other states. My main experience has been with Arizona. As I said earlier, I used to spend a lot of time traveling to Phoenix, and I saw many respectable people carrying openly in a seedy part of town. Nobody seemed alarmed at the sight of a handgun, and as long as it stayed holstered and you were minding your own business, it wasn't an issue.

Since we live in Texas, where we have long hot summers, I like the idea of being able to carry openly sometimes if I want. I also like the idea of not being arrested if my firearm "prints" through a t-shirt or some liberal gun-hater gets a glimpse of my weapon if my shirt rides up.

Just my $2e-02 of course.

MojoTexas

barres wrote:IIRC, isn't Pitt big enough that you actually do have to have a permit to open carry there by Penn law? I know Philly is.

From my recollection of PA law, you are correct. PA's pretty gun friendly except for their clauses on cities w/ populations over 1M+.

MojoTexas wrote:Here are my general thoughts on open carry...I brought this subject up with my CHL instructor a few weeks ago and he's against the idea, but here's why I'm for it:

My response is that open carry can be a deterrent. My CHL instructor, who works for a popular gun range in Texas, frequently "open-carries" inside the range, just like the rest of the employees there. Why do they think it's okay for them to open-carry inside their place of employment (a gun range) but feel it's bad in general? His response seemed a little hypocritical, but I wasn't going to call him out on it when he was grading my test.

He is in a known-environment. His house, his place of employment. I don't blame him a bit. I open-carry in my house, but not outsde.

MojoTexas wrote:Secondly, as far as bad guys targeting you and taking your weapon away from you...I've been a student of martial arts for multiple years. In general, if you want to be good at self-defense (whether armed or unarmed), you need to be aware of your surroundings and not fall victim to being caught not paying attention. That applies whether you're carrying openly, concealed, or not carrying at all.

You have never been surprised. Everyone has, without exception. I too have been a student of martial arts for multiple years (you do realize that "multiple" can be defined as anything more than 1 year), and I have stomped around the mountains of Eastern Afghanistan in full battle-rattle tense as all you-know-what, and still been surprised. We are all aware of the need for situational awareness, and we realize that we cannot be 100% effective 100% of the time.

MojoTexas wrote:Since we live in Texas, where we have long hot summers, I like the idea of being able to carry openly sometimes if I want. I also like the idea of not being arrested if my firearm "prints" through a t-shirt or some liberal gun-hater gets a glimpse of my weapon if my shirt rides up.

There is no legal prohibition for "printing" or "unintentional" showing of your weapon.



MojoTexas

You can laugh at my comment about antigun Texans but look at some posts on this board. There's even one guy who says carrying a gun in open holster is like wearing a T shirt with a swastika in a synagogue.