Houston man sentenced for smuggling guns to Mexico

[bryang]

bryang wrote:

It is disgusting to see what is happening in America and feel helpless to do anything.

Somehow, doing nothing in Texas until the Feds do us doesn't sound very proactive. Maybe it's not in our best long term interests to be able to buy as many guns as we can daily? Likewise with a 3 day waiting period, etc., etc. I dunno', what do y'all think?

I'd much rather have a little inconvenience with firearm purchases than not be able to purchase them at all. Before the flame thrower squad gets here, be reminded the 2nd Amendment said "bear arms", it didn't say anything about purchasing them.

I agree, I did not mean that we should just sit here and let them run over us with out a fight. I have contacted my representatives and senators both state and federal many times and it seems as if they could care less about out ideas or suggestions,...and it is politics as usual. I am just frustrated and I know I am not the only one. I agree that a little inconvenience would be better than an all out ban. I am open to any suggestions.

-geo

[stroo]

The problem is that there are obstacles in the way currently and as some other posters have pointed out, neither stores nor law enforcement seem to be applying them to what seem like obvious situations. Take care of enforcement of current obstacles first!!!

[KD5NRH]

Maybe I should have just elevated to a call to BATF?? Probably the same result...

Or maybe not; if you managed to get in touch with someone quickly enough, you could give them enough information to slap a delay on the background check for the next female purchaser called in from that location, and they could arrange to check it out more closely.

Of course, if he's 18, and it's a gift from mom, then it's legal.

[Mike1951]

This won't solve the problem, but it is worthwhile information.

http://www.dontlie.org/kit.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't Lie Retailer Kit

Make sure that you and your employees are prepared to stop illegal firearm purchases. Bring the Don't Lie for the Other Guy message into your store. The Don't Lie Retailer Kit includes display items to warn the public about the severe penalties for engaging in straw purchases and educational information to help retailers recognize and stop any would-be straw purchaser.

The kit includes:

Don't Lie CD: A Retailer's Guide to Recognizing and Deterring Straw Purchases

Don't Lie Brochure: A companion guide to the Don't Lie CD

Counter Card

Counter Mat (available in Spanish)

Two Posters (available in Spanish)

4 x 4 Logo Decal

........................
Also: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ffrrg/ltright.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ATF Learning Theater: View scenarios that explain some of the complexities involved in ensuring lawful firearm sales.

LEARNING THEATER

ATF's Learning Theater will attempt to illustrate how these laws apply in a real-life scenario. Carla is a new employee at Western Arms Guns and Ammunition. Join her as she encounters a variety of situations familiar to many firearm retailers, all under the watchful eye of her supervisor, Mr. Lucas.

Learning Theater 1: Typical Long Gun Transaction

It's Carla's first day on the job at Western Arms Guns and Ammunition. With some help from Mr. Lucas, she learns the basic steps for a simple long gun transaction, including Form 4473 and the NICS background check.

Learning Theater 2: Typical Handgun Sale

Carla helps Lisa, a first-time firearm buyer, in selecting a handgun. She learns the differences between a handgun purchase and a long gun purchase, including some tips on what will pass for valid ID for any purchase.

Learning Theater 3: Multiple Firearm Transaction

Carla learns the procedures when a customer purchases both a long gun and a handgun at the same time. With some help from Mr. Lucas, she discovers such a sale depends not only on the number of firearms purchased, but also what type.

Learning Theater 4: Straw Purchase Attempt

Underage youth Bobby brings neighbor Mr. Thomas into Western Arms to purchase a handgun. Will Carla know the proper action to take in this case?

Learning Theater 5: Out of State Transaction

When a collector of vintage pistols sees something he'd like to add to his collection, Carla must learn the rules and regulations for an out-of-state purchaser.

Learning Theater 6: Loan or Rental of Firearm

Western Arms often rents firearms to their customers for a variety of reasons. When a customer rents a gun to use on their on-site shooting range, Carla learns the correct procedures to make sure the store is complying with the law.

Learning Theater 7: Working with Law Enforcement

When Agent Gonzalez of the ATF shows up at Western Arms, Carla learns the importance of keeping accurate records in helping with a criminal investigation.

Learning Theater 8: Gun Show Transaction

Carla and Mr. Lucas have packed up their gear and rented a booth at a local gun show. Find out how laws are different when a dealer is away from their premises.

[Purplehood]

I almost want to place some blame on the shop. If someone comes in and buys an AR-15 a day for a 3 weeks and pays cash every time, maybe they should have done something.

We don't know that they did not. That may be how the Feds found out.

I applaud this kind of investigation and prosecution. This guy was committing a crime and needed to be hammered. Four years is totally inadequate. Couldn't the Feds have busted him for contributing to Terrorism?

[Oldgringo]

This won't solve the problem, but it is worthwhile information.

http://www.dontlie.org/kit.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't Lie Retailer Kit

Make sure that you and your employees are prepared to stop illegal firearm purchases. Bring the Don't Lie for the Other Guy message into your store. The Don't Lie Retailer Kit includes display items to warn the public about the severe penalties for engaging in straw purchases and educational information to help retailers recognize and stop any would-be straw purchaser.

The kit includes:

Don't Lie CD: A Retailer's Guide to Recognizing and Deterring Straw Purchases

Don't Lie Brochure: A companion guide to the Don't Lie CD

This may not solve the problem but it is definitely a step in the right direction...without imposing additional restrictions on the innocent. Afterall, a whiskey store/bar is trained not to and penalized for selling to those obviously or suspected to be blotto.

Counter Card

Counter Mat (available in Spanish)

Two Posters (available in Spanish)

4 x 4 Logo Decal

........................
Also: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ffrrg/ltright.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ATF Learning Theater: View scenarios that explain some of the complexities involved in ensuring lawful firearm sales.

LEARNING THEATER

ATF's Learning Theater will attempt to illustrate how these laws apply in a real-life scenario. Carla is a new employee at Western Arms Guns and Ammunition. Join her as she encounters a variety of situations familiar to many firearm retailers, all under the watchful eye of her supervisor, Mr. Lucas.

Learning Theater 1: Typical Long Gun Transaction

It's Carla's first day on the job at Western Arms Guns and Ammunition. With some help from Mr. Lucas, she learns the basic steps for a simple long gun transaction, including Form 4473 and the NICS background check.

Learning Theater 2: Typical Handgun Sale

Carla helps Lisa, a first-time firearm buyer, in selecting a handgun. She learns the differences between a handgun purchase and a long gun purchase, including some tips on what will pass for valid ID for any purchase.

Learning Theater 3: Multiple Firearm Transaction

Carla learns the procedures when a customer purchases both a long gun and a handgun at the same time. With some help from Mr. Lucas, she discovers such a sale depends not only on the number of firearms purchased, but also what type.

Learning Theater 4: Straw Purchase Attempt

Underage youth Bobby brings neighbor Mr. Thomas into Western Arms to purchase a handgun. Will Carla know the proper action to take in this case?

Learning Theater 5: Out of State Transaction

When a collector of vintage pistols sees something he'd like to add to his collection, Carla must learn the rules and regulations for an out-of-state purchaser.

Learning Theater 6: Loan or Rental of Firearm

Western Arms often rents firearms to their customers for a variety of reasons. When a customer rents a gun to use on their on-site shooting range, Carla learns the correct procedures to make sure the store is complying with the law.

Learning Theater 7: Working with Law Enforcement

When Agent Gonzalez of the ATF shows up at Western Arms, Carla learns the importance of keeping accurate records in helping with a criminal investigation.

Learning Theater 8: Gun Show Transaction

Carla and Mr. Lucas have packed up their gear and rented a booth at a local gun show. Find out how laws are different when a dealer is away from their premises.

This may not solve the problem but it is definitely a positive step in the right direction...without imposing further restrictions on the innocent. Afterall, a whiskey store/barkeeper is trained not to and penalized for selling additional alcohol to anyone thought to be or obviously blotto.

[stevie_d_64]

bryang wrote:

It is disgusting to see what is happening in America and feel helpless to do anything.

Somehow, doing nothing in Texas until the Feds do us doesn't sound very proactive. Maybe it's not in our best long term interests to be able to buy as many guns as we can daily? Likewise with a 3 day waiting period, etc., etc. I dunno', what do y'all think?

I'd much rather have a little inconvenience with firearm purchases than not be able to purchase them at all. Before the flame thrower squad gets here, be reminded the 2nd Amendment said "bear arms", it didn't say anything about purchasing them.

Ok, I'd like to stretch this a little bit...Not a lot, but see where my thought process goes...

Let's say "I" (just me, my money, under no pretences to send these guns anywhere but my "secret" bunker) bought an AR-15 from this Carter's Country in the same way form and fashion as this guy did...

Now what??? The 4473's are on file for review by some law enforcement agency when they need to do so...

Really, would any flags be raised a this point for someone to wionder why I was buying up all this hardware in this manner???

If I have bought all of these AR's (18 I believe???) at the same time, if they had them all in stock, would that have raised any flags, legally???

My method of payment (cash), would that raise any eyebrows???

Since a customer that passes an NCIC check, there would be no other cause to NOT go ahead and transfer these weapons to me in any way, shape or form...And no one could question me about what or where these weapons would be doing???

So the shop is off the hook as far as I am concerned...

It is just blind luck the weapons were traced back to gooberhead back here in Houston...(You watching Crossfire???)

So how do you supposedly stop the guns from going to a foriegn country (Mexico) if they are legally purchased and transferred to a gooberhead like Jose???

I would say that you cannot, even if you inact another ban on the sale of these weapons, which will certainly take law-abiding citizens out of the loop, yet you create a black-market for this item that drives the problem underground and more difficult to investigate...

But we already know this...So how do we effectively communicate this to those thinking they are going to get this under control in a manner that would infringe upon those of us who will be most effected...Because I see the people who are intending to break the law to be un-hindered and will continue to find and obtain these weapons while we are left with what we have for now, till they decide to take those away from us...

Somehow, I just don't like where this is going again...

[boomerang]

Until they enforce the existing laws to the full extent there's no reason to pass new laws.

[bryang]

Until they enforce the existing laws to the full extent there's no reason to pass new laws.

This IS the problem!

Like Steve pointed out, wouldn't it raise red flags if some gooberhead bought 18 AR's at one time with cash...duh???
Oh, no...they want to use this "crises" to push through more gun laws that only effect the law abiding citizen.

-geo