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seamusTX wrote:I looked at my employer's harassment policy. It states explicitly, several times, that any harassment, threats, or other ethical violations must be reported immediately to management or the hotline.

It also states that employees should not investigate violations on their own, and that failing to follow the policy is grounds for discipline of the employee who failed to report

Certainly you have the right to go to the police, but the company also has the right to enforce its policies (if they have any).

This is just companies' way of covering their backsides and trying to cover up a problem before it becomes public. It's a PR move (both internally and externally). Companies would much rather just fire the offending employee (the aggressor, not the complainant) and NOT have the police involved. Problem is, this now puts this disgruntled ex-employee on the street, police may or may not have a record of any of this, and this disgruntled employee now has a vendetta against the company and a bigger vendetta against the employee who ratted on him/her. The company has, in effect, just made this situation worse for the complaining employee, not better.

Every citizen has the right to file a police report for a legitimate complaint - and brandishing a weapon toward a fellow employee, short of a self-defense scenario, is a very legitimate complaint. Let me make this clear, if this is just some tiff between two employees, follow company policy. If this is any form of non-violent, though possibly creepy, harassment, follow company policy. But this employee, IMHO, was at least tangentally threatened by the offending employee's brandishing of a firearm. And even if this does not rise to the level of "assault", it is still a crime to brandish a weapon in this manner. This type of problem - an employee brandishing a gun toward another employee - is not merely a violation of some company policy or workplace rights (not belittling such problems), it is a CRIME with potentially deadly further consequences. Who knows if this nutjob's next crime will be walking down the hallways with 10 firearms firing 300 rounds of ammo at anyone unlucky enough to cross his path.

Obviously, the employee going straight to police and not to employer runs the risk of employer's wrath. But similar to what we all say about self-defense in general, better to be alive and unemployed than dead with relatives collecting your pension. This is obviously my own personal opinion/advice, YMMV, IANAL.

I see companies' policies regarding such incidents as just as bad for their employees as companies' policies toward banning law-abiding, licensed employees from having guns in the workplace/parking lot. These companies are taking an indvidual's legitimate right to self-defense away from the individual because doing so appears to be better for the company ("appears to be" because I say in both cases it is substantially worse for the company when the threatened employee is harmed).

Company policy does not usurp indivdual's rights.

austinrealtor wrote:This is just companies' way of covering their backsides and trying to cover up a problem before it becomes public. It's a PR move (both internally and externally). Companies would much rather just fire the offending employee ... and NOT have the police involved.

Of course. Company management does what is in their best interest. They are amoral at best (and we know about the ones that are worse).

But what are the police going to do with a verbal complaint and no other evidence (if that is the situation)?

Even if they arrest the guy, he will bond out. The fact is that our justice system is going to put him back on the street sooner or later for most of his sorry existence.

I really don't see a good solution to this kind of thing.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:I looked at my employer's harassment policy. It states explicitly, several times, that any harassment, threats, or other ethical violations must be reported immediately to management or the hotline.

If her company has a similar policy, she's obligated by policy to report the threat, explicit or implied. If not, it may still be a good idea.

seamusTX wrote:It also states that employees should not investigate violations on their own, and that failing to follow the policy is grounds for discipline of the employee who failed to report.

Reporting the incident to the police is not investigating on their own. For example, if someone comes home and their front door is kicked in, it might be a good idea to call the police instead of going in to investigate on their own.

seamusTX wrote:Certainly you have the right to go to the police, but the company also has the right to enforce its policies (if they have any).

Provided their policies don't violate anti-whistleblower laws.

Just to play the devils advocate does the alleged skinhead know she is Jewish and this is why he says/does what he does or maybe he is just an idiot impressed with himself trying to show off maybe he likes her and is trying to impress her. Just a thought.

IMHO...regardless of what she does next, I would suggest she not go to work unarmed until (if ever) the situation is resolved. If she was a friend of mine, I would get her enrolled in a chl class asap, teach her to shoot, if required, and loan her my airweight in the meantime. Yes, I know what the law says, but how many of us have repeated the old saw "better to be judged by 12 etc..."
Dave

Iratollah,

Just something to keep in mind for your friend...I was harrassed about 15 years ago by someone working for the same company. Being a young female, 1st grown up job after college, working in a male environment (only female in the field) I found myself the object of some unwanted attention. I tried to talk to a couple of people, but was given the 'you probably misunderstood' speech. Also he was a long time employee and the son of a long time employee. Figured out I was basically on my own. Did some research and at the time (mid 90's), taking action to stop stalking/harrassing behavior (i.e., going to law enforcement or employer or talking directly to the offender) had one of two results: they either stopped the behavior or it escalated. Pretty crappy odds when you are already fearful. Knowing the good-ol boy management as I did, I knew I was on my own.

Since I spent the majority of my day alone-the only one in the camp-I became very good at listening for vehicles, knowing who was driving what, having alternate routes to get from one area to another, and always had a knife handy (well, needed one for work anyway). Fate stepped in and he was killed in a one vehicle accident.

To this day I have people comment that I must have esp or something because I became pretty good at knowing who would be coming through the door when I moved up to the main office...no, I just had to learn to be incredibly vigilant and picked up particular car sounds or footstep cadence.

Tass
CHL holder 2nd renewal received
BTW: my dog was also affected by the phone calls to my house-just a puppy, he picked up on my stress level every time the phone rang (I LOVE caller ID) and would bark. 15 years later that dog still barks every time the phone rings.

iratollah:

TexasFlash is the 1st person to state what I think should be done here:

This harassed, about-to-be-victimized-anytime Jewish woman should immediately
buy a gun that she can handle. She will be able to keep it in her residence and her
vehicle for starters, which sure beats having no gun anywhere.

Take her to the range so she can handle her weapon of choice with confidence.
Stress that she must start to attain "Warrior Spirit" so that if she has to draw
down on Nazi man that she will actually shoot when necessary. SHOWING her gun
is not going to be enough.

She should immediately start her CHL process, since we know how long that's going
to take. Tell her that in the most recent reporting year, 18% of all new CHL's were
women.

Like the Holocaust before - Never again!

She should realize that her boss, LEO's, or you (her heat-carrying CHL friend) will not always
be there to protect her. She is responsible for being her own "first responder".

Much as I believe in her getting armed, changing jobs might be the best current response.
SIA

Tass wrote:Iratollah,

Just something to keep in mind for your friend...I was harrassed about 15 years ago by someone working for the same company. Being a young female, 1st grown up job after college, working in a male environment (only female in the field) I found myself the object of some unwanted attention. I tried to talk to a couple of people, but was given the 'you probably misunderstood' speech. Also he was a long time employee and the son of a long time employee. Figured out I was basically on my own. Did some research and at the time (mid 90's), taking action to stop stalking/harrassing behavior (i.e., going to law enforcement or employer or talking directly to the offender) had one of two results: they either stopped the behavior or it escalated. Pretty crappy odds when you are already fearful. Knowing the good-ol boy management as I did, I knew I was on my own.

Tass

I hope things have changed for the better since then. Probably, small and family-owned companies are worse, but most larger/publically-owned companies don't tolerate this like in the past.

Back in the 90s my girlfriend was constantly harrassed by her boss. She just stood her ground and refused his advances. What should she do? Who could she tell?

She was the HR manager and the culprit was the president of the company. She eventually left the company and went on to bigger and better things.

As far as Iratollah's friend, this harrassment may spur her interest in CHL or some other form of self-defense if she is of that particular mindset. CHL or no, there are still a lot of jerks that she will meet in the workplace and at other times in her life. Being a jerk still isn't a crime. You can't shoot them all.

Tass wrote:... Fate stepped in and he was killed in a one vehicle accident....

Note to everyone: Don't mess with Fate ( or Tass).

Lot's of good advice here, thanks everyone. I heard today that she is looking for a new job and that would be a shame because then the dirtbag thinks he won. Not everyone is prepared to handle ugliness and some people are by nature non-confrontational (they're sometimes referred to as 'victims'). I can't suggest to the woman that she pick up a chair and smack the guy with it next time, but y'all have given enough ideas that she can determine what makes most sense for her.

Oddly enough, I don't know this woman personally. My activism and associated publicity has resulted in me becoming a go-to-guy for incidents like this one. While there are established and well-funded agencies that are supposed to help with this sort of thing, they've devolved into more Kumbaya and less results. My Bridge Houston group has successfully resolved some unpleasant situations and word gets around, some of it for not taking no guff off no goofballs. The more you can do the more people ask you to do. (If you want something done, ask a busy person, right?)

What started out with me deciding to do something after hearing someone say, 'someone should do something about this,' has turned into a second full time job, without benefits like a paycheck. But we're making a difference, doing some good, and that is rewarding in itself. (Perhaps not as satisfying as getting to smack that guy with a chair, but doing the right thing is usually the right thing to do.)