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Begging is not a crime. Assault is a crime. Aggravated assault causing bodily injury is a felony.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:Begging is not a crime. Assault is a crime. Aggravated assault causing bodily injury is a felony.

- Jim

What are you trying to say Jim? Actually, in Dallas panhandling/begging is a crime. Escalating your language, aggressive gestures and quickening your pace toward a person IS threatening and can be assault (remember assault is the "threat" of violence) and my making eye contact and stepping toward him was a non-violent action that discouraged his aggression.

Digressing into the dangers of carelessly handling high pressure nozzles is amusing but non-relevant. However come to think of it, the nozzle being handy would have been a good non-lethal deterrent had he pressed.

chamberc wrote:Personally, if I'm approached, I always say "no thank you, I'm not interested" as soon as they start talking, and from that point simply ignore them.

This is exactly what i have done as well. As soon as they start asking or talking i say "Sorry im not interested"

I upset one of those guys that hangs around the gas stations trying to sell his Car Wax stuff.

I interrupted as he approached and said "Sorry im not interested". He grabbed an attitutde and said "You dont even know what i was going to ask"
I got an attitude back at him and said, "it doesnt matter, im not interested in anything you have to say". and i left.

Dragonfighter wrote:What are you trying to say Jim? Actually, in Dallas panhandling/begging is a crime. Escalating your language, aggressive gestures and quickening your pace toward a person IS threatening and can be assault (remember assault is the "threat" of violence) and my making eye contact and stepping toward him was a non-violent action that discouraged his aggression.

Dallas may have a panhandling ordinance, but the Supreme Court has ruled many times that begging per se is constitutionally protected. Laws that prohibit panhandling have to be based on obstruction of public ways, trespassing, and similar offenses.

Even haranguing along the lines of "I haven't eaten in three days. I bet you don't know what that's like, Mr. shiny new Mustang" (or whatever you are driving) is not a crime.

All I'm saying is that the use of force is not an appropriate response to this kind of thing.

For the bum to commit verbal assault, he has to make a specific, credible threat toward a specific person or group of people. Bums know how to push the edge of that envelope without committing an arrestable offense.

I agree with you that showing through speech and body language that you have a backbone and aren't going to be intimidated is usually enough to make the bum look elsewhere for a handout. I call it "looking mean."

Here's a comprehensive write-up on police responses to panhandling, including a list of Supreme Court rulings: http://www.popcenter.org/problems/panhandling/3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

Depending on my mood, I sometimes ask them what branch of the military they served in and if they can convince me that they indeed DID serve, I can usually come up with a buck. If they lie or are evidently making up something...or have never served, they go on ignore and I tell them to beat their feet.

The San Antonio TV station recently had a news item on the high number of panhandlers
at a particular strip mall in NW San Antonio at the corner of <some street> and I-410.

The reporters interviewed a few people. One of them was a rough, country kind of guy.
He told the reporter, ON FILM, that an aggressive panhandler threatened to kick his ____
for not giving him any money.

The man said that he responded by putting a .357 to the forehead of the panhandler before
running him off. No shot was fired.

This could have been just a lying blusterer appearing tough.

If he had actually done this, I don't think he was a CHL with the proper attitude.

If he is not a CHL, he wouldn't be covered under MPA either since a verbal threat from a homeless
guy might not be enough of a threat.

Whatever the interviewed man's status, talking about putting his .357 to someone's head seems like
a rather questionable action. Sheesh.

SIA

surprise_i'm_armed wrote: talking about putting his .357 to someone's head seems like
a rather questionable action. Sheesh.

SIA

in Houston it sometimes takes that to get them away from you .

Very sad, but most of the homeless are mentally ill and/or have a substance abuse problem. I always help if I can, but I know that they cane safe. also get aggressive. B

yeah, they are getting worse. I was driving to Trudys the other day and almost ran over one who jumped in front of me

marksiwel wrote:yeah, they are getting worse.

I can't say that I track the trends. I see quite a few panhandlers and homeless people. But given the state of the economy, there are going to be more; and probably fewer people giving them less money.

-- Jim

Don't worry about panhandlers, they're so zonked, they can't hurt you. They're harmless, especially the old ones.

Now, it's the young guys with baggy clothes and hoodie that approach you for no reason that I'm afraid of. Whenever I'm at 7-11 (I avoid that place like the plague, but my S.O. is always making me get into uncomfortable situations) and see one of those guys, my hand automatically goes in my pocket.....

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:Whatever the interviewed man's status, talking about putting his .357 to someone's head seems like
a rather questionable action.

Yup. Until you've got their hands securely bound, it's just inviting a grab for the gun. Much better to maintain some distance until the concrete sets and you're ready to shove them off into the lake.

(incidentally, with the shallow lakes around here, you should also invest in a depthfinder before trying to hide anything in the water)

i kid you not, but the this really happened to me.

I went into a Walgreen's about 15 years ago to buy a six pack. There was a guy panhandling by the door on my way out.
He actually looked fairly respectable , clean cut etc. He asked for money. I did not have a dime on me (used the ATM card for the purchase) and would have given him something if I did. He appeared genuine. I told him sorry, but I had no cash though I'd give him a beer. He actually refused and said something like "No thanks, I don't drink. I just need to eat." Blew me away.

What I usually do with panhandlers is to look them straight in the eye and say "No, sir." It seems to throw them for a loop by calling them sir.

FWIW, I've probably got the unpopular opinion in the matter...

I used to lead worship for a homeless ministry back in California. I will state right up front that I am fully aware that many of them are liars, and the rest are crazy. And they nearly all smell bad and have lice. God loves them anyway, so I try very hard not to let my personal inclinations get in the way of responding to them; and not always successfully, by the way, because I scare just as easily as the next guy. But that said, MY Jesus said:

...'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

Matthew 25:40

That doesn't leave me much wiggle room.

So... when I am approached by a homeless person I try very hard to pick up on whether or not the person is an actual threat to me. I don't believe that God expects us to spend our lives recklessly on the insane or possessed if there is a genuine danger to our lives and/or health, but I do believe that He holds us responsible for how we treat with the downtrodden. So, even if I suspect that the panhandler is merely a con-artist with a phony story, I choose to err on the side of spiritual caution and give them a little something, or offer to buy them a meal.

I have definitely been burned and given money to people who turned out to be fakers, but I also know that I have been able to make a difference in the lives of a homeless single mother and her little daughter who were panhandling outside a Vons market by taking them inside and buying them a significant amount of food.

In the event where a panhandler was threatening in approach to me, I would say loudly enough to make sure that I am heard by both him and any potential witness that I have nothing for them, and then do whatever is necessary to keep my distance from them, including to retreat while I open up that space that will give me time to access my weapon if I needed to. In any case, there are very few homeless people hanging around in Grapevine, if any, and I haven't really had to deal with any of this stuff since I stopped working down in Dallas in 2007, so I freely admit that perhaps my outlook would be of little use to someone who had to deal with it all the time.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

...'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

Matthew 25:40

Amen.

... I freely admit that perhaps my outlook would be of little use to someone who had to deal with it all the time.

I deal with it all the time. I crossed paths with a guy this afternoon who was either psychotic or a very good actor. He didn't ask me for anything.

He didn't need shooting. He needed help that is beyond my means (psychiatric hospitalization).

My only concern is to avoid letting the real bums think that I am an ATM.

- Jim