TexasCHLforum.com

txbirddog wrote: I for one, like the no gun rule. I have seen way TOOOOOO MANY that I would trust in a crowded room, taking out a LOADED gun and asking about it. I don't like being swept in a gun shop and would not want to be swept by a loaded gun there. I think there is just too much that could/would go wrong in a place like that.

Good point, I back that up.

Well, thanks for the input.

Going forward, I'll make sure to be a more compliant/quiet individual, and make sure not to upset the apple cart. I mean, I completely understand that it's totally unacceptable to expect to be able to carry a weapon licensed by my state to, of all things, a "weapons" show. I guess I should have understood this is very much in-line with the "no outside food" rule in restaurants.

I'll respect the law, but as I've stated here before, I don't make a good "sheeple". Feel free to tell me I'm an idiot, I'll accept that. The same people saying "oh my gosh, the last place we want loaded firearms is at a gun show", are the some of the same folks that might be angry because the Fort Hood soldiers were not armed.

I expect the flames, so my flamesuit is on.

That's my simple .02 cents.

(yea, that's sarcasm you detected.....)

Guys,

I'm a little concerned by the sentiment of a couple of members that a 30.06 is a good idea anywhere. I for one have never felt comfortable being in a place where CHLs cannot legally carry. Like schools, and sporting events, anyone can come in and carry illegally carry, but a CHL who actually has something to lose must be defenseless. Am I strange, or are there CHLs who actually feel more comfortable in some 30.06 environments?

Embalmo

Embalmo wrote:Am I strange, or are there CHLs who actually feel more comfortable in some 30.06 environments?

There are gun owners who want to ban open carry or think we should have to notify the cops.

I'll let UnlceTed have the final word to address my point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUO3TMO-ezo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

chuckybrown wrote:Ok, I often read on this site that we write businesses that post 30.06 signs. We write municipalities that incorrectly post properties.

Yet, for some reason, we're not as proactive with the organizations that run these gun shows? It's almost hypocritical!!!!

I can carry into any gun shop I can think of, yet to save a $, we all arrive without our weapons, or allow them to be rendered inoperative in order to enter the shows.

What are your thoughts? Should we all begin to collectively stand up and become a voice? My gosh, could you imagine the pressure if attendence began to fall off, and they knew why?

My .02 cents.

Your .02 cents???????????

I agree with you 100%. I've made two gun show purchases, but I've become more and more bothered by the 30.06 thing. All of the arguments for ignoring it would be blown up by the CHL crowd in any other context.

Here's what I'm seeing:
It's probably a government building, just ignore it.
Usual responses in other situations:
- But the cops at the door think it's valid. Do you want to be a test case?
- They've shown you they don't want you there whether it's valid or not.

Why all of the work to get the ones at other municipal-owned buildings taken down? The zoo. The Fair. City Halls. I've seen people involve attorneys and DPS to get signs removed when they aren't allowed. Why not at gun shows in government-owned buildings?

Too many crazies. What if somebody got shot? Too many people close together.
In other situations:
- The CHL crowd is trained and educated. They know the laws. They are law-abiding. They spent hundreds of dollars, went to class, and underwent background checks for the license they hold. They aren't the problem, the BGs are.
- What if a BG was there? Defenseless victim zone! Defenseless victim zone!

FWIW, a CHLer should know that this is a public place and that intentionally failing to conceal his CCW is against the law. They cannot draw their concealed firearm inside the show. If they want to measure it for accessories, they need to go to the car, unload it, secure it, and go back in. If they need protection, they need a different firearm. If you find a holster or part for the concealed gun in your waistband, pocket, or fanny pack, you cannot try it out unless you go into a private place and disarm the firearm and have the LEOs check it at the door. Ask the vendor to hold the item for you until you return. The CHL courses could teach this simple principle. LEOs could enforce the law that any CHLer drawing a CCW in the show is arrested and charged with failure to conceal. These arguments do not hold muster.

They have police at the door and tons of dealer who could load something in a bad situation, so you're safe.
- I'm still trusting somebody ELSE for my security, not myself.
- What if they can't get to me in time? I don't care if the BG is stopped AFTER I'm hit.
- What about the walk to the car through the parking lot? I don't get a personal escort there.

Again, we don't accept these statements in any other situation.

I like gun shows. . . and I have supported them in the past, but honestly - the prices recently have been inflated to capitalize on fears and gouge uninformed shoppers. I don't want to see them go, but I also don't want to compromise my principles to support them, especially when they are core principles that we hold to everywhere else.

I wasn't going to chime in but felt like chucky should know that he's not alone.

Likewise, the "I've seen too many accidents" argument is asinine. Holstered and concealed is just that. It stays that way. If it is not holstered and concealed, it is not concealed. Unholstering your concealed weapon is at the least brandishing and is an offense.

fickman wrote:If they want to measure it for accessories, they need to go to the car, unload it, secure it, and go back in.

Exactly! And I've done just that.

I trust myself to keep my carry concealed and not pull it out at a gun show.

But I don't necessarily trust anyone else to be as careful.

I've been present at gun shows when there were three ND's. It's usually a dealer instead of a customer. But we need only remember the idiot CHLer that discharged his Glock at George R. Brown about a year ago and was arrested.

All of the shows I attend are in government buildings, so I'm not breaking any law. As long as I don't fall out from a stroke or heart attack, no one will ever know except forum members who know me.

There are gun owners who want to ban open carry or think we should have to notify the cops.


That is true-a gun owner, a shooter, and a CHL are 3 very different animals; me and the missus happen to both be all three. I know people who believe that the only time they are vulnerable and should carry is on long road trips, or in their house; otherwise they are completely immune to any threat??

Embalmo

I frequent the gun shows, have sold a couple, and bought more that a few. While the whole thing does leave one thinking, there is a difference twixt principles and realities. We, or at least I, go there to view the widest variety of available wares, in an atmosphere that allows for haggling; with an eye towards the "unbelievable" deal. Not that we often find that, mind you, though I have found things that I never saw elsewhere, some good prices, some not so good. There is a HEAVY police presence, and I have noted what I assumed to be a loaded handgun lying around behind the counter in a convenient spot for the merchants. My main concern is the trip back to the car. Particularly during the Market Hall shows, especially later on Sunday, when the most convenient place to park is in the garage. This is the time I can normally attend (working on weekends can, in fact, be a bit of a female dog.) Some would argue: concealed is concealed. Have been known to make the trip to the Post Office parking lot, while armed, at 3 in the morning to drop off outgoing mail. Right, wrong, "there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Just to quote a certain melancholy Dane. In short, this is Texas. Do what you feel like you need to do, and be aware that you could end up as a less-than-shining example, come the 5 O'clock news. My much respected and beloved Grandfather, God rest his soul, I found out later in life, had at least, and I mean at least, a .25 on or near him at all times. After the CHL law passed, a friend asked if he would get one. His reply was, "haven't needed one yet, why would I get one now?" I respect his moxie, but would never have done so myself. Do what you gotta do, and, if caught, Stand Tall Before The Man.

How do we know which ones are in a government owned building? Is there a listing of which gun shows are and are not in a government owned building?

It shouldn't be too hard to do a search on the facility. If it's being held in any kind of convention center, it's probably owned by a city or county body. I have seen small shows in Knights of Columbus halls or similar, also in shopping centers.

I suppose this answers the question of 30.06 signage validity at Dallas Market Hall.

1960 Market Hall, the world’s largest privately-owned exhibition hall, opens at 2200 Stemmons Freeway. Trade Mart expands a second time. Stemmons Freeway opens allowing improved access.

http://dallasmarketcenter.com/documents ... istory.pdf

I think having the shows posted 30.06 isn't a bad idea. They also post shows in Colorado where I used to live. They are justifiably concerned that people will ND a weapon, and I was at a show where that happened. Some may remove the loaded gun they carry to test a holster, or grip, etc. Unfortunately many CHL holders are inexperienced or incompetent gun handlers, just go watch a the average CHL class on the range, it can be downright frightening at times. I don't like being disarmed anywhere I go, but because of what is going on at a show I think the potential for a ND is very high, thus the 30.06 posting makes sense.

I have met the promoter of the Dallas Market Hall show, and in the past the promoter of the Crossroads show in Denver. They aren't anti gun in any way shape or form, but if people get shot at their shows you can be sure that they won't be able to find venues to do shows, and they will have tremendous liability exposure. It is also very bad press, the ND I witnessed in Denver made the news and portrayed gun owners and gun shows in a very negative light.

I assume gun shops have liability insurance without 30.06 signs. I'm curious why insurance companies would see a gun show as so much of a higher risk that they wouldn't offer the same policy?

BTW, accepting these policies as a reality of insurance limitations is one thing. Supporting a policy like this at a gun show for safety reasons seems hypocritical to me for someone that advocates the exercise of gun rights in public. You support an irresponsible person's right to carry a gun in public, unless you have to be in the same convention hall with him? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.