TexasCHLforum.com

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:41 pm**

ninemm wrote:I'm not sure what the law was before September 01, 2009 but the law that went into effect now requires a "medical exemption" and "the department approves tint exemptions on a case-by-case basis". Carrying a letter or prescription from a doctor/optometrist is no longer sufficient.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/Misc/faq/tint.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wish they didn't exempt limos and suvs with dark rear tint. Do the geniuses who passed the law think there are never bad guys in the back seats?

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:03 pm**

RPB wrote:Glad it all worked out ...

Just a side note,
I do a lot of kayaking and kayak fishing and I'm up here in Texas hill country now ...
I know we can carry in LCRA parks/lakes, any and all City owned parks/lakes, but
I'm thinking that Aquilla is a "Corps of Engineers" lake .... Federal Property, so I avoid carrying on any lake
Operated by US Army Corps of Engineers until I am sure it's OK to carry there.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fi ... cess.phtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/visito ... Id=M274786" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I actually don't go to any lake where I can't carry legally.
The purpose I got my CHL was for rattlesnake protection. There's LOTS of rattlesnakes where I g.
Plus, a couple years ago a man was found shot to death at a County Boat ramp, another person a couple years ago was found on the lake bottom inside a concrete filled drum (which was sunk about 30 years ago), ... so I always carry my rattlesnake protection after that, just in case.

I've read ..
In most cases firearms are prohibited on Corps properties, except while hunting in authorized/designated hunting areas, and unloaded, and you have the commander's written permission .......
BUT
I've ALSO read, that Part 327 section 327.26 of the Code of Federal Regulations makes it legal to carry on COE property by stating that state and local laws shall apply on project lands and waters including the use and possession of firearms UNLESS OTHERWISE PROVIDED (which they did).

327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.
(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless: (1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.
(b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.

Title 36 Code of Federal Regulations, Part 327 governing use of Corps of Engineers Project Lands and Waters
a) Except as otherwise provided in this part or by Federal law or regulation, state and local laws and ordinances shall apply on project lands and waters. This includes, but is not limited to, state and local laws and ordinances governing:

(1) Operation and use of motor vehicles, vessels, and aircraft;

(2) Hunting, fishing and trapping;

(3) Use or possession of firearms or other weapons;

(4) Civil disobedience and criminal acts;

(5) Littering, sanitation and pollution; and

(6) Alcohol or other controlled substances.

(b) These state and local laws and ordinances are enforced by those state and local enforcement agencies established and authorized for that purpose.

-----------
State parks, OK, LCRA parks, ok. City Parks, ok, National Parks after Feb 10, 2010 will be OK, Other places Brazos River Authority etc I don't know.

Now here's a real mind blower ... If Lake Whitney is a Corps lake ...but there is TPWD: Lake Whitney State Park, and we may be able to carry in State Parks .... I give up, going to fish in the pond in back of my house ... On second thought I give up.... too cold to fish ... going back to bed.

Wait, you mean I'm not in the City's lake side Park? Stupid Garmin G.P.S. must be on the fritz again !!!

I do NOT think you can legally carry in a CORPS OF ENGINEERS park right now.
Serach the forum for Corps of Engineers

Read http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/te ... 1.3.0.1.14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not a lawyer

CONCEALED means CONCEALED

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:25 pm**

I understand that concealed means concealed, however, consider the following:

In Texas, we can carry in city parks, county parks, LCRA parks (Lower Collorao River Authority parks) and *State parks*, and after Feb 22, 2010, *National Parks.*
(**Except State or National parks where the property is owned by the Corps of Engineers, who state " U.S. Army Corps of Engineers - Frequently Asked Questions
May I have a firearm in the park? A concealed handgun permit is not valid on Federal property. The possession of a firearm and/or ammunition is prohibited.

(This is Common, Whitney State Park, Ray Roberts Lake State Park etc etc etc are Corps of Engineers parks)

Anyway, here's the scenario ... you are camping and walking on the hiking path, there's a pack of wild feral hogs threatening you ahead, and a rattlesnake behind you.
To your left and right you hear banjo music and some people saying "let's make him squeel like a pig" (like in the movie Deliverance).
You know it's a State Park, so it's legal to carry your gun there since you have a license by your State, but you also know that it's owned by the Corps of Engineers and your license is not valid there ...... what do you do?

(Corps of Engineers actually advises to call them to remove the snake, but I don't own a cell phone, and even if I did, can they hear me now?, out in the woods?

"If you do encounter a snake in or near your campsite, notify a park ranger, park police officer, or park headquarters so that we can properly relocate it. ) (If I don't own a cell phone, and they don't hear me yell, can I make another loud noise in order to notify them? I think they have noise restrictions in the rules too.)

1) Pray
2) see if you can hop backwards over the snake without getting bit because a hospital is too far away
3) bare your teeth at the feral hogs and make yourself look bigger so they all get scared away.
4) Cuss out your wife for choosing that C.O.E. park and vow to never go to one again
5) Ask a banjo player if he can dial a Park Ranger for you
6) Whip out a gun and get out of the situation alive, and when the Rangers hear gunfire and come, you pay the $500 fine and serve your 6 months jail time
7) other

Looks like the fine is up to 500.00 and/or no more than 6 months in jail for violation of any of the "park rules"
http://www.saw.usace.army.mil/jhkerr/ep1165.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seriously, I just won't go to those places rather than violate a law. However, I have written to every governmental person who represents me regarding this.

Here's corps property list, so we know not to go there
Corps Lakes Gateway: Texas "

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:34 pm**

I would call Burt Reynolds.

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:36 pm**

mctowalot wrote:I would call Burt Reynolds.

I'd call Sally Feilds, but that's another matter lol
you got me lauging so hard I can't type

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:01 pm**

03Lightningrocks wrote:CONCEALED means CONCEALED

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED means SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:08 pm**

I agree, but their position is "$500.00 and/6 months in jail" means "$500.00 and/6 months in jail"
and I don't have the funds and time to fight for "rights" I already have that are being infringed upon..

So, they don't get my "dollar votes" since I won't patronize those parks which "WE" own as "public" property..

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:31 pm**

RPB wrote:I agree, but their position is "$500.00 and/6 months in jail" means "$500.00 and/6 months in jail"
and I don't have the funds and time to fight for "rights" I already have that are being infringed upon..

So, they don't get my "dollar votes" since I won't patronize those parks which "WE" own as "public" property..

I always have trouble finding cops with x-ray vision. I dunno....maybe I just don't look for them hard enough. I have also never run up to a cop and announced I am carrying. I often wonder how some of you fellers think they will magically know you are carrying a gun.

To address the question concerning deliverance.... that is pretty darned funny. I suppose I would have to go with calling Burt Reynolds also.

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:41 pm**

One more thing. I am guessing you have not spent a whole lot of time in the outdoors. I am 48 years old and have been hunting and fishing for 45 years. My family has hunters...my friends all are hunters. Not one of us has ever had to kill any animal...snake...mongoose...tiger...bear...or hog in self defense. I have seen plenty of the mentioned species in the wild...except for the Tiger and Mongoose and none of them ever chased me down. I have stepped around more snakes than I can count...even whacked a few with sticks. Not once did I ever have to blast any of them. I am not even sure I could shoot a moving snake with a handgun without sending rounds bouncing off rocks all over the place.

The two legged snakes are the ones that pose the risk and if I ever have to shoot one of them...it will be well worth the 600 bucks and six months because it was life and death.

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:53 pm**

Well, the Game Warden etc. usually asks ... when you present him your fishing, drivers, and CHL licenses while you are out on the kayak fishing .... they generally ask if you are armed, and it's an offense to lie to the Peace officer.

Soooooo X-Ray vision isn't really needed when they are asking.

Lape v. State, 893 S.W.2d 949, 958 (Tex. App.--Houston [14th Dist.] 1994, pet. ref'd) (stating that lying to police is crime of moral turpitude). Moral Turpitude convictions are discoverable and may be admissible to impeach your testimony in any later civil or criminal litigation (such as a car wreck lawsuit where you are injured for example, showing a propensity to lie, so why should we believe you now?)

I'm 55, retired, and spend a LOT of time outdoors kayaking and fishing etc. I just go to LCRA areas and other areas, instead of Corps properties, .... my point is not just about rattlesnakes and mongoose, but about the man found shot in his truck at the county boat ramp, about the woman found floating in Inks Lake, about the man found in a 55 gallon drum at the bottom of lake Buchanan when the lake level was low, and about the gangster wannabes shooting at vehicles in the parking lot on another lake ..... snakes and mongoose and animals as well as banjo music ... if a snake was moving, I wouldn't shoot it, I've never seen one about to strike while moving, just when they get that "I'm about to strike" behavioral pattern/shape, and I bet you wear snake boots instead of going barefoot or wearing flip-flop/Croc sandals. My feet are tough from all my time outdoors, but not snake fang tough ... I don't wear snake boots to kayak.

I just want the ambiguity cleared up, where State Parks are ok, National Parks are ok, unless ... the ONE federal agency we pay taxes to support, has anything to do with it.

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:01 pm**

RPB wrote:Well, the Game Warden etc. usually asks ... when you present him your fishing, drivers, and CHL licenses while you are out on the kayak fishing .... they generally ask if you are armed, and it's an offense to lie to the Peace officer.

Soooooo X-Ray vision isn't really needed when they are asking.

Lape v. State, 893 S.W.2d 949, 958 (Tex. App.--Houston [14th Dist.] 1994, pet. ref'd) (stating that lying to police is crime of moral turpitude). Moral Turpitude convictions are discoverable and may be admissible to impeach your testimony in any later litigation (such as a car wreck lawsuit where you are injured for example, showing a propensity to lie, so why should we believe you now?)

I'm 55, retired, and spend a LOT of time outdoors kayaking and fishing etc. I just go to LCRA areas instead of Corps properties, ....

I have never been asked if I was armed by any game warden. I am not sure why a warden would even bother to ask me if I am armed while I am fishing and I have run into wardens a few times. Admittedly it has not been a regular occurrence. If hunting...it is pretty darned obvious I am armed as the rifle in my hands gives it away. Maybe my clean cut appearance keeps me off the radar. I have never had a police officer randomly ask me that question either. Guess I am just lucky.

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:05 pm**

Peace Officers that don't ask if you are armed after you present your Concealed Handgun License? Odd, but great!! I'll go to your lake then :D

Around here, highland lakes. when they see your CHL license, they ask if you are armed before they start measuring your fish. (Probably because most people are, and they want to know before they take out a ticket book and start writing a ticket because you accidently mistook/mis-identified a Striper and thought it was a White Bass) Some Park Rangers or Game Wardens even advise you (wrongfully) that you must wear your PFD/life jacket at all times.

One incident on a forum recently, the game warden disarmed the citizen, and accidently discharged the firearm shooting out the citizen's tire.

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:57 pm**

03Lightningrocks wrote:One more thing. I am guessing you have not spent a whole lot of time in the outdoors. I am 48 years old and have been hunting and fishing for 45 years. My family has hunters...my friends all are hunters. Not one of us has ever had to kill any animal...snake...mongoose...tiger...bear...or hog in self defense.

I shot a rabbit in self defense once. Ask me how, I dare you.

Posted: **Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:06 pm**

I have never shown my driver's license to a game warden either in the woods or on the lake. Never been asked to show anything but current hunt/fishing license, and boat registration a couple of times by a yokel at Lake Striker 40 years ago that was just fishing for a reason to write a ticket.

I guess I got off topic again........

Posted: **Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:42 pm**

mr surveyor wrote:I have never shown my driver's license to a game warden either in the woods or on the lake. Never been asked to show anything but current hunt/fishing license, and boat registration a couple of times by a yokel at Lake Striker 40 years ago that was just fishing for a reason to write a ticket.

I guess I got off topic again........

Same here. They have asked to see my fishing license but I never had one demand to see my identification.

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