heres my situation

[TxSigp229]

Is it worth it to risk your life for a job where you're making $5-10 an hour with no benefits?

If the BG came in shooting, thats an entirely different story.

[Purplehood]

I just had a couple of skin cancers removed from my nose (that hurts) and the surgery required some 18 stitches. For a short while after the surgery, I was bandaged to the point that one might think that I was wearing a mask.

As I said, the anesthetic hurt like the dickens, do I have to get shot too?

Unfortunately, Yes.

[roberts]

We are saying the same, but from a different standpoint. I mean it to say you cannot just claim after the fact you were in fear of your life. That you have to be able to (honestly) say that you were.

No. You have to convince a jury (or the cops/DA) it was reasonable to believe you needed to use deadly force to protect your life, etc.

It's irrelevant if you were afraid.

[striker55]

I'm thinking I'm justified to draw my weapon and tell him to hit the floor, not intending to pull the trigger unless he makes any sudden moves indicating he is going for a gun. A woman had entered the lobby moments before and retreated signaling her accomplice. Then he appeared. I am on hightened alert just being on that shift and expecting the unexpected. Thanks for all responses.

[Oldgringo]

striker55 wrote:

A woman had entered the lobby moments before and retreated signaling her accomplice.

There is a major difference between "accomplice" and "companion".

[flynbenny]

I grew up in Colorado where it is very cold. I have never see anyone wear a mask/balaclava over their face in public (IE not in the woods, ski slope, etc..) who was up to any good. I'm just sayin...I might wear one skiing, hunting, fishing etc during the winter, but you remove it when you go into public, for very obvious reasons.

Also, to the OP it could be someone wearing a burqa...I live in Plano see it all the time here.

[Dragonfighter]

I just had a couple of skin cancers removed from my nose (that hurts) and the surgery required some 18 stitches. For a short while after the surgery, I was bandaged to the point that one might think that I was wearing a mask.

As I said, the anesthetic hurt like the dickens, do I have to get shot too?

Yes, but with the anesthetic on board, it won't hurt...as bad.

Seriously though, the OP asked:

Working 3rd shift behind the desk at a hotel. Masked man comes in to rob me. Do I have to see a gun before I can draw on him? I'm thinking if he's masked he's up to no good and I'm not waiting to find out if he has a gun. If he makes a move like he's going for a gun do I shoot?

The situation as posted is a simple yes, no or maybe question. I posted the relevant code emphasizing the standard of reasonableness as justification to aid the OP in making his own call based on his unique knowledge of the incident...for next time. IMHO I would posit a response of "no" and "that's your call" respectively.

There have been and , God forbid, probably will be persons shot who were simply appearing to be a threat. There have been actors who were exonerated in some of these cases, though if I found I was wrong...well, God would have to heal my heart because it would be broken.

That said, one must accept responsibility for their actions. I would not in a million years walk into a store or hotel (especially during third shift) without removing helmets masks, etc. If not for fear of armed confrontation, for fear of causing apprehension in someone else unduly (and yes I used to ride in all seasons and all weather). I have lived in some cold areas where ski masks were common but no one walked in any where without rolling it up peeling it off as they did so. I have adhered to this etiquette since child hood; it is common courtesy.

I would never in a million years go banging around a neighbor's garage in the middle of the night or bang on their doors yelling and hollering in an unintelligible manner. I would never act aggressively toward a clerk in a stop and rob in the late night, or anytime for that matter. If I did any of these things, I would hope I would survive but could I really blame someone for "reasonably" fearing for their life?

My last point, I wrote and then was responded to as follows:

I do not see anything that says you have to see a gun or other weapon. Seeing a masked man come into my premises or business, especially late at night would be a reasonable cause to assume the worst.

And shoot him?? This a "shoot first and ask questions later" train of thought. You're going to shoot him because he has a mask on.

Well this is where we agree to disagree. And I'll leave it at that, and let others offer their opinion.

Thanks for expressing yours.

Emphasis mine.

C'mon, since when does "assume the worst" mean I'm going to shoot or do anything other than mentally prepare for disaster? Maybe I'm just in a bad mood but really, let's try not to insert words into a poster's mouth or extrapolate what is beyond the apparent (what if's excepted of course as a particularly valuable asset in pre-planning). Speculation, even modification to explore is fine but this is written (and often abbreviated) communication, we can not propose to understand motives, attitudes or intent beyond what is presented.

[joe817]

Working 3rd shift behind the desk at a hotel. Masked man comes in to rob me. Do I have to see a gun before I can draw on him? I'm thinking if he's masked he's up to no good and I'm not waiting to find out if he has a gun. If he makes a move like he's going for a gun do I shoot?

C'mon, since when does "assume the worst" mean I'm going to shoot or do anything other than mentally prepare for disaster? Maybe I'm just in a bad mood but really, let's try not to insert words into a poster's mouth or extrapolate what is beyond the apparent (what if's excepted of course as a particularly valuable asset in pre-planning). Speculation, even modification to explore is fine but this is written (and often abbreviated) communication, we can not propose to understand motives, attitudes or intent beyond what is presented.

If you will re-read OP's original post you'll find that I put no words in poster's mouth. See bold print in OP's original statement.

Making a move could be someone putting their hands in their pockets. I'm certainly not going to shoot someone for putting their hands in their pockets. Would you, given this scenario??

[Dragonfighter]

Joe, I was referring to placing words in my mouth. The quote you cited and responded with the "shoot first" response was mine, but as I am intrinsically ugly it doesn't rub the pretty off of me. My point being, there is a tendency (you were convenient but not the only one...my own glass house as well) to add factors simply not there and then within that extrapolation write responses that seem hasty at best. This is also the convenient thread but again, not the only one where this has occurred. I know I am not the keeper of net etiquette but it is wearing on me a tad.

[joe817]

Thanks for the reply Dragonfighter. Certainly no disrespect intended...I'm not that type of person.

It's good that we can have civil conversations instead of heated arguments about things that are important to us. It is in this way we learn and grow.

[striker55]

Working 3rd shift behind the desk at a hotel. Masked man comes in to rob me. Do I have to see a gun before I can draw on him? I'm thinking if he's masked he's up to no good and I'm not waiting to find out if he has a gun. If he makes a move like he's going for a gun do I shoot?

When I said "if he makes a move like he's going for a gun do I shoot" its after all thoughts and actions have gone through my head, not just the fact he is moving. I believe he said I have a gun (this happened to the girl on 3rd shift who I cover for on her days off). I for one do not leave the door unlocked, we have a button to push to let anyone in after hours. Plus when I let someone in and they look suspisous I back towards a doorway till I can asses the situation. I think I'm pretty vigilant when working that shift. I think there is a fine line when trying to decide when to draw, I dont want to be the last to draw!

[RPB]

Working 3rd shift behind the desk at a hotel. Masked man comes in to rob me. Do I have to see a gun before I can draw on him? I'm thinking if he's masked he's up to no good and I'm not waiting to find out if he has a gun. If he makes a move like he's going for a gun do I shoot? Tough questions.

"Masked man comes in to rob me. (that's an assumption) I'm thinking if he's masked he's up to no good (that's an assumption)
-------------
HEY !!!

It's 27 degrees outside and I just rode my motorcycle here. My nose was freezing and I'm wearing a ski mask which also was keeping wind and bugs off my face. I'll take it off in a minute, but I gotta warm up my fingers so they work first. Gimme a minute. I have those handwarmers like hunters use in my pockets.
Oh, my partner coming in now in the ski mask was in my sidecar. That's my wife, she's harmless too, unless you shoot me.

[texas1234]

I have the perfect solution. Hang a double barrel 10 gauge shotgun to a wire underneath the hotel desk. When the masked guy walks up say "Why Ed does this mean we're not friends anymore? You know Ed, if I thought you weren't my friend... I just don't think I could bear it!"

[markthenewf]

I understand these "what if" discussions are prudent to us folks that are packing, but (from what I understand and read here) most bad encounters happen pretty quickly and even a quick internal mental debate really isn't an option. I guess it premits us to logically review the letter of the law for such situations.

Anyways, back to the original post: If it's July in Houston and someone wearing a ski mask approaches me, he/she will probably be looking at the business end of a 1911. If it is February in Montana, I'd probably be stumped since we'd all be bundled up anyways.

[baseballguy2001]

if a person walks into my hotel wearing a mask, (cold night or not) my alert status jumps off the scale. I would not draw just because of the mask wearer, but the situation is not normal and it would be on the wearer to convince me by his/her actions that their wardrobe choice is a non hostile choice.