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seamusTX wrote:If events come to a point where U.S. folding money is not accepted, you are going to have a lot worse problems than using precious metal for currency.

Non-perishable food, cigarettes, medicine, and petroleum fuels are going to be, um, worth their weight in gold. Primers probably would be priceless.

Make a list of the things that you use every day, from toothpaste to soap to toilet paper, and consider what you would be willing to trade for them if they weren't readily available.

There are survivalist forums where these issues are debated heavily.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:It's a moot question. If U.S. dollars become worthless, the value of property becomes unknowable.

I would argue that the value of the property is the same as before. It's the value of the US dollar that changed.

Immediately before the Great Depression shoe shine boys were giving stock purchase advice. With all of the ads now hawking the purchase of gold or silver I would wonder if we aren't in a similar situation. Sure, someone purchasing gold or silver right now might realize some gains but the chances of those gains out pacing those of common stock are extremely small. And, as has already been suggested, if everything completely melts down a lot of other assets will will be of more value than gold and silver.

the entire economy is based on confidence

The stock market is purely confidence based - people buy stock based on confidence it will go up
People buy retail items based on confidence that they will have a job and be able to pay
The US dollars value is based in large part on foreign confidence in the US markets
many more confidence analogies and examples are possible - im just too lazy to type them

Once that confidence is gone the associated value of ALL items falls with it.

Food, water and shelter being the easy exceptions

Its all sorta a moot point for me since I cant do recombinant DNA in the bathtub. I wont be around to see the bottom of the fall...

boomerang wrote:

seamusTX wrote:It's a moot question. If U.S. dollars become worthless, the value of property becomes unknowable.

I would argue that the value of the property is the same as before. It's the value of the US dollar that changed.

I am not an economist and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. However, it seems to me that the situation is not that simple.

House prices are currently set by the availability of mortgages, buyers' confidence in having a steady cash income, buyers' expectations of rising values, and other factors such as competition between buyers and sellers.

If you had to pay for a house in chickens, pigs, and rice, it would be a little more difficult to establish a value.

- Jim

92f-fan wrote:the entire economy is based on confidence

The stock market is purely confidence based - people buy stock based on confidence it will go up
People buy retail items based on confidence that they will have a job and be able to pay
The US dollars value is based in large part on foreign confidence in the US markets
many more confidence analogies and examples are possible - im just too lazy to type them

Once that confidence is gone the associated value of ALL items falls with it.

Food, water and shelter being the easy exceptions

Its all sorta a moot point for me since I cant do recombinant DNA in the bathtub. I wont be around to see the bottom of the fall...

The Stock Market is the ultimate confidence scheme

seamusTX wrote:

boomerang wrote:

seamusTX wrote:It's a moot question. If U.S. dollars become worthless, the value of property becomes unknowable.

I would argue that the value of the property is the same as before. It's the value of the US dollar that changed.

I am not an economist and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. However, it seems to me that the situation is not that simple.

House prices are currently set by the availability of mortgages, buyers' confidence in having a steady cash income, buyers' expectations of rising values, and other factors such as competition between buyers and sellers.

If you had to pay for a house in chickens, pigs, and rice, it would be a little more difficult to establish a value.

- Jim

YEP Exactly

As of today, looking at the average price of standard weight broilers, I live in a 68,242 chicken house.

Keith B wrote:As of today, looking at the average price of standard weight broilers, I live in a 68,242 chicken house.

As of right now , after the housing bubble popped, I owe more chickens than my house is worth.

USA1 wrote:

Keith B wrote:As of today, looking at the average price of standard weight broilers, I live in a 68,242 chicken house.

As of right now , after the housing bubble popped, I owe more chickens than my house is worth.

That's pretty fowl.

I don't know why precious metals seem to be worth money, but I don't understand the "pretty" factor about jewelry either and why people pay that much for shiny metal.

Im in the process of purchasing my first chicken coop. It's not a very big or expensive place. It needs work, but I should be able to pay it off in under 3 years while doing some repairs.

If the economy were to tank, I don't think gold and silver will be worth anything as a barter mechanism. They have no practical value as far as Im concerned.

A 4oz 24carat gold chain is worth less then a quality sharp knife and a box of shotgun shells to a hungry man looking to feed his family.

flb_78 wrote:I don't know why precious metals seem to be worth money, but I don't understand the "pretty" factor about jewelry either and why people pay that much for shiny metal.

Im in the process of purchasing my first chicken coop. It's not a very big or expensive place. It needs work, but I should be able to pay it off in under 3 years while doing some repairs.

If the economy were to tank, I don't think gold and silver will be worth anything as a barter mechanism. They have no practical value as far as Im concerned.

A 4oz 24carat gold chain is worth less then a quality sharp knife and a box of shotgun shells to a hungry man looking to feed his family.

historically gold, silver, bronze, beads and even things like salt have been used as currency

ALL for the same reason - rarity and universal demand

seamusTX wrote:
Speaking of agriculture, mating pairs of livestock and poultry would become quite valuable. With the loss of petroleum fuel, it that happens, the beasts of burden would resume the role that they had in history.

Did I mention that I can train horses?
Oxen would not be much of a stretch.

- Jim

Jim, You're officially on my TEOTWAWKI Team. Livestock Coordinator.

When the Stuff hits the Rotating Oscillating Air Moving Device, meet me at the Westlin Bunker.
We'll hold out there for a few months until everything settles down, then come back topside and rebuild.

dicion wrote:Jim, You're officially on my TEOTWAWKI Team. Livestock Coordinator.

Thanks. I appreciate the offer.

The official term is wrangler.

Getting a horse or mule after TEOTWAWKI is going to be quite a challenge, if you don't already have one. Urban dwellers probably should stock up on non-perishable food, medicine, and things that can be bartered.

- Jim

A buddy and I were discussing this scenario the other day - the most precious things will probably be AMMO followed by guns to shoot them with! But you guys already knew that...

There's a few movies I need to watch...The Road...The Book of Eli...at least I'm told they're pretty good/enjoyable. Carry on.