Underhanded Marketing Tactics

[TexasRunner]

My friend and I were told the exact same thing by an instructor who was trying to attract students at the gun show in Pasadena yesterday. He was adamant and very practiced in his presentation but did not have anything on paper and said he was quoting "a very reliable, unnamed source" from a meeting he supposedly had in November. He almost persuaded us but we did not sign up; I did take one of his cards.

[DoubleActionCHL]

Just for confirmation, I contacted DPS. I wanted the official word. Here's the response:

"The only changes that the department has so far are the legislation changes that took effect last year in September 1st 2009. Those legislatures changes were on DPS website at : http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/LS-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"What the other instructors are “rumoring” about its only their own assumptions. When changes will take place within the department if any changes will take place, they will be posted on the DPS website."

[G.C.Montgomery]

I attended the Dec 14 renewal class and there was no mention of anything other than the plan to facilitate instructor renewals by March 1. Having worked under the Texas DIR as a UH-System employee early in my career, I figured this was yet another IT project mandated by the legislature with unrealistic deadlines and no resources allocated to get it done. As soon as they said the Department was contracting with a 3rd party vendor in an attempt to meet the deadline, I knew I was right...There is a good chance they will fail to meet that deadline. The State of Texas has simply never been good at picking 3rd party vendors to do anything. It's always the lowest bidder or someone's buddy, cousin, in-law, lover, sibling, or spouse. As a result, the contracts are invariably behind schedule and over budget.

As far as the rumor in question goes, I just got wind of it over the weekend after I taught a class on Saturay. My response when I heard the rumor was that I'd want to see proof in writing. At the least, I wanted to see what comment Charles, Lt. Hitt or some direct contact at DPS might have regarding these rumors. As it was explained to me, this was not something set in stone it was just being discussed by DPS. But even at that, the "reliable, unnamed source" did not seem to be anyone likely to have more information than Charles or Lt. Hitt. I see Charles has replied as to this thread as I'd hoped and confirmed my suspicions. I don't believe this is an issue of an instructor being underhanded or dishonest...I think he has simply been given some bad information by another person who held himself out as being more knowledgeable than is actually the case.

[DoubleActionCHL]

I don't believe this is an issue of an instructor being underhanded or dishonest...I think he has simply been given some bad information by another person who held himself out as being more knowledgeable than is actually the case.

The "underhanded/dishonest" assertion stems from the fact that this instructor has been approached multiple times and informed that he's mistaken. Rather than, seek the truth, he holds steadfast to his belief and continues to propagate a falsehood... because it generates lots and lots of sales. He doesn't WANT to know the truth, it seems.

[G.C.Montgomery]

I don't believe this is an issue of an instructor being underhanded or dishonest...I think he has simply been given some bad information by another person who held himself out as being more knowledgeable than is actually the case.

The "underhanded/dishonest" assertion stems from the fact that this instructor has been approached multiple times and informed that he's mistaken. Rather than, seek the truth, he holds steadfast to his belief and continues to propagate a falsehood... because it generates lots and lots of sales. He doesn't WANT to know the truth, it seems.

Well, I haven't been to a gunshow in months so I don't know who were talking about. The Houston area instructors I know are all squared away and I don't think any of them would engage in deceptive trade practices. When I was approached with the information this weekend by one of those instructors, I told him it didn't sound right and that I'd want to check with Charles or Lt. Hitt directly because I'd expect one or both to be aware of any upcoming changes or discussions that hadn't yet been posted the the website.

If someone is using information they know to be wrong based on conversations had here, with Charles, Lt. Hitt, or another member of the CHL section at DPS, then that is indeed a problem. It is easy enough to call/email someone to get a straight answer and it is an instructor's responsibility to validate any information they pass on to their students or otherwise use in promoting their programs. You said he's been approached multiple times and told he was misinformed, right? How exactly did that conversation go? Is this an issue of the guy doesn't trust/believe the messenger? I'm just asking because I really don't know who has talked with whom about this. This weekend was the first I'd heard of the rumor and this thread was the first time I heard the rumor is being used to promote someone's business. But then, if we're on the subject of underhanded marketing, hasn't the fear of Obama led to brisk ammunition/gun sales at bloated prices as well as increased interest in CHL since November 2008? I'm not picking sides here...It's just an observation.

Look, it sounds like no one wants to point fingers in public on this. I'm certainly not going to spread more scuttlebutt without knowing exactly who said what to whom. May be you can shoot me a PM because I'd love to know exactly who we're talking about and trace it to the source. We've heard of instructors offering short classes to friends or people with enough money in violation of the Act and all so I know there are jerks out there. But, I just find it hard to believe there are that many of them even if I do think half the people I see at DPS every couple years have no business being instructors. That said, I also know that competition for students at these gunshows seems to be pretty heavy...There were four different outfits recruiting CHL students at the last gun show I attended last year. So I can't help but wonder if that much competition leads to a kill the messenger or at least a don't believe the messenger mentality among competitors. Of course, as I said, it is easy enough to call/email someone to get a straight answer from the authorities on the issue. Just my $0.02.

GM

[DoubleActionCHL]

The response was "No. You're wrong. I'm right." Of course, I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically the response, and I know of two individuals who approached him.

I believe this probably started as an honest misunderstanding, and may continue to be. However, there's a point where we must double check our information. He's had more than one challenge to his assertions. Continuing to perpetuate this misinformation, in my opinion, is intellectually dishonest.

And regardless of how I see it, what's important is how our students will see it come March when nothing happens. Again, I believe this sort of approach makes us all look bad. And since you mentioned it, I was uncomfortable about exploiting the Obama-anti-gun-scare, as well. I didn't have to scare people into getting their CHLs. They were already scared. The media did a great job, but there were also plenty of instructors using the "get your CHL now, while you still can" approach. My conversations on this were usually open-ended; we'd talk about the potential gun grab as a possibility, but not necessarily an eventuality. I'll admit that I didn't simply discount it, because we STILL don't know where this administration is going.

Anyway, I probably sound like I'm bashing the guy, and that really wasn't my intent. I just feel the tactics are less than ethical (assuming he knows it's not true, or has been presented with enough evidence to doubt the veracity of the claim) and wanted to get some feed back.

[Bashful]

My friend and I were told the exact same thing by an instructor who was trying to attract students at the gun show in Pasadena yesterday. He was adamant and very practiced in his presentation but did not have anything on paper and said he was quoting "a very reliable, unnamed source" from a meeting he supposedly had in November. He almost persuaded us but we did not sign up; I did take one of his cards.

I had the same discussion with him... He also had a pretty good line of folks signing up.

[KD5NRH]

I have no idea why the March 1, 2010 requirement was added.

Really? You honestly don't think that maybe the legislators have noticed how the CHL division deals with deadlines?