TexasCHLforum.com

Rex B wrote: Keith, I'm a bit slow here.
I don't see a distinction between a sobriety checkpoint and an insurance checking roadblock. In both cases all cars have to be stopped without PC and the drivers checked for legality.

No difference AFAIK. My understanding is the the only way they allow roadblocks is they must stop every car and treat them all the same. So, if sobriety, they stop all cars and question them the same and if they smell alcohol, then they move you to the side as they now have reasonable suspicion. If an insurance checkpoint, they check your DL and insurance card for every vehicle's driver.

It is a fine line that they walk on these and while they border on rights violations, they are allowing them and the guidelines have stood up in court. Same as the mandatory blood draw warrants (another gray area.)

Drewthetexan wrote:Where do these insurance checkpoints happen? How long has this been going on?

Are these legal?

They must not do these as often in other parts of Texas a they do in El Paso. I run into one of these about 3-4 times a year. The cops block off a section of a particular road and check insurance, registration and license. They even have a couple of patrol officers about 10 blocks back who pull you over if you turn around or turn into a business. I always keep my truck up to date, so it is not a huge deal for me, except for (what I believe to be) a big constitutional violation. On top of that, it is no fun to pull behind about 50 cars and stop and wait your turn. It does seem a little "third reich".

I always have my insurance current...you'd be a fool not to. But these are indeed wrong. The nice thing is that people are using Twitter and Facebook to notify the masses of the 'checkpoints'.

While I'm certainly up-to-date, I would like to know if other regions in the Lone Star have these "Insurance Checkpoints."

I have never heard of such. Not exactly thrilling..

never had to stop for one out here in stick land. we get the occasional COW stops( cows blocking the road, escapeeees ), and we as good drivers help the leo herd em up out of traffic
only time a leo has asked for my insurance was at a traffic stop and he promptly gave it back to me.
I cant even read it that fast to know if i give one that is current
yep i am guilty of not tossing old cards.

Roger Howard wrote:

samobius wrote:What if a Border Patrol checkpoint wants to see ID? Do you show CHL? I have never had one ask to see, just had them ask for my citizenship. But I have seen people pulled over with their cars being searched.

yes they are LEO so you are required to disclose

It does not appear that federal leos meet the definition of peace officer.

From Texas Code of Criminal Procedure

Art. 2.12. WHO ARE PEACE OFFICERS. The following are peace
officers:
(1) sheriffs, their deputies, and those reserve deputies
who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter
1701, Occupations Code;
(2) constables, deputy constables, and those reserve deputy
constables who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under
Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;
(3) marshals or police officers of an incorporated city,
town, or village, and those reserve municipal police officers who
hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701,
Occupations Code;
(4) rangers and officers commissioned by the Public Safety
Commission and the Director of the Department of Public Safety;
(5) investigators of the district attorneys', criminal
district attorneys', and county attorneys' offices;
(6) law enforcement agents of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage
Commission;
(7) each member of an arson investigating unit commissioned
by a city, a county, or the state;
(8) officers commissioned under Section 37.081, Education
Code, or Subchapter E, Chapter 51, Education Code;
(9) officers commissioned by the General Services
Commission;
(10) law enforcement officers commissioned by the Parks and
Wildlife Commission;
(11) airport police officers commissioned by a city with a
population of more than 1.18 million that operates an airport that
serves commercial air carriers;
(12) airport security personnel commissioned as peace
officers by the governing body of any political subdivision of this
state, other than a city described by Subdivision (11), that
operates an airport that serves commercial air carriers;
(13) municipal park and recreational patrolmen and security
officers;
(14) security officers and investigators commissioned as
peace officers by the comptroller;
(15) officers commissioned by a water control and
improvement district under Section 49.216, Water Code;
(16) officers commissioned by a board of trustees under
Chapter 54, Transportation Code;
(17) investigators commissioned by the Texas State Board of
Medical Examiners;
(18) officers commissioned by the board of managers of the
Dallas County Hospital District, the Tarrant County Hospital
District, or the Bexar County Hospital District under Section
281.057, Health and Safety Code;
(19) county park rangers commissioned under Subchapter E,
Chapter 351, Local Government Code;
(20) investigators employed by the Texas Racing Commission;
(21) officers commissioned under Chapter 554, Occupations
Code;
(22) officers commissioned by the governing body of a
metropolitan rapid transit authority under Section 451.108,
Transportation Code, or by a regional transportation authority
under Section 452.110, Transportation Code;
(23) investigators commissioned by the attorney general
under Section 402.009, Government Code;
(24) security officers and investigators commissioned as
peace officers under Chapter 466, Government Code;
(25) an officer employed by the Texas Department of Health
under Section 431.2471, Health and Safety Code;
(26) officers appointed by an appellate court under
Subchapter F, Chapter 53, Government Code;
(27) officers commissioned by the state fire marshal under
Chapter 417, Government Code;
(28) an investigator commissioned by the commissioner of
insurance under Article 1.10D, Insurance Code;
(29) apprehension specialists commissioned by the Texas
Youth Commission as officers under Section 61.0931, Human Resources
Code;
(30) officers appointed by the executive director of the
Texas Department of Criminal Justice under Section 493.019,
Government Code;
(31) investigators commissioned by the Commission on Law
Enforcement Officer Standards and Education under Section
1701.160, Occupations Code;
(32) commission investigators commissioned by the Texas
Commission on Private Security under Section 1702.061(f),
Occupations Code;
(33) the fire marshal and any officers, inspectors, or
investigators commissioned by an emergency services district under
Chapter 775, Health and Safety Code; and
(34) officers commissioned by the State Board of Dental
Examiners under Section 254.013, Occupations Code, subject to the
limitations imposed by that section.

Rex B wrote:I don't see a distinction between a sobriety checkpoint and an insurance checking roadblock. In both cases all cars have to be stopped without PC and the drivers checked for legality.

There is a significant difference and the DWI checkpoint has been allowed by SCOTUS while Driver's license and insurance checkpoints, and even drug carrying (not using) have not. The difference is the threat to other people's safety. A DWI is considered an immediate threat to innocent people, so the police have a much higher justification for a minor infringement and stop than they woudl for someone who is not an immediate threat. A person without insurance is not a safety threat to anyone. He may be a financial threat IF he has an accident, but the accident possibilities are seen as separate from whether or not he has insurance (or a DL or proper registration or inspection, etc.).

In Texas, an insurance checkpoint is illegal since we do not have any state law authorizing such, as required by case law in both state and federal courts. I had not heard of anyone doing one in a long time.

This is also why someone introduced a bill to allow DWI checkpoints last legislative session. Because without the state law, even DWI checkpoints are questionable.

And thanks, rspeir, for beating me to the punch. I thought for a minute that no one else would point out that the law specifies a peace officer, not an LEO, and that federal agents are not peace officers in Texas.

Mando'a wrote:

pbwalker wrote:Show me your papers!

Aus Deutsch. (From German ?)

Papieren, bitte!

Did you mean
Auf Deutsch ? (in German)
Sorry many years of German kicking in.. must not be smartelic..
I can never help it

TexasVet wrote:

Mando'a wrote:

pbwalker wrote:Show me your papers!

Aus Deutsch. (From German ?)

Papieren, bitte!

Did you mean
Auf Deutsch ? (in German)
Sorry many years of German kicking in.. must not be smartelic..
I can never help it

That's right, Auf

I'm a little rusty, it's been about 20 years...

karder:

Just to throw a little curve ball at you, which differs from
the previous discussion:

Since you are in El Paso, you presumably could be in great
danger at one of these insurance checkpoints since if there
were some illegals from the "killing" side of the border in
the lineup, they could start shooting at the LEO's.

Since you may be bumper to bumper with the vehicles in front
and behind your truck, you would not have the option to mash
the gas and book out of the area.

It would seem to me that you should be ready to exit your vehicle
immediately and flee to the "cover" side of your truck, keeping
your engine block between you and the shooters.

However, drawing your weapon for your own self defense might
cause you to be perceived as the "bad guy" by the defending LEO's
in the gunfight with the gang members.

Stay careful out there. Remember, you can never have TOO MUCH
ammo on you.

SIA

srothstein wrote:

Rex B wrote:I don't see a distinction between a sobriety checkpoint and an insurance checking roadblock. In both cases all cars have to be stopped without PC and the drivers checked for legality.

There is a significant difference and the DWI checkpoint has been allowed by SCOTUS while Driver's license and insurance checkpoints, and even drug carrying (not using) have not. The difference is the threat to other people's safety. A DWI is considered an immediate threat to innocent people, so the police have a much higher justification for a minor infringement and stop than they woudl for someone who is not an immediate threat. A person without insurance is not a safety threat to anyone. He may be a financial threat IF he has an accident, but the accident possibilities are seen as separate from whether or not he has insurance (or a DL or proper registration or inspection, etc.).

In Texas, an insurance checkpoint is illegal since we do not have any state law authorizing such, as required by case law in both state and federal courts. I had not heard of anyone doing one in a long time.

This is also why someone introduced a bill to allow DWI checkpoints last legislative session. Because without the state law, even DWI checkpoints are questionable.

And thanks, rspeir, for beating me to the punch. I thought for a minute that no one else would point out that the law specifies a peace officer, not an LEO, and that federal agents are not peace officers in Texas.

No problem. I looked into it a while back when I was having to go through the Border Patrol checkpoint between Corpus and Harlingen.