TexasCHLforum.com

MoJo wrote:
Like this

And what distance were you shooting when you made all those holes covered by the tan-colored tape?

j/k that's a very nice group from 7 yards.

200 yards off the hip.

Seriously, It was a used target from the IDPA used target pile there's no telling what distance or how fast or even who shot 'em.

TLynnHughes wrote:

KFP wrote: I would highly recommend finding a local IDPA club to shoot with.

I couldn't agree more! It's a humbling experience but over time it will make a difference for the better in your shooting.

T.

I am fully behind this. If you want to shoot well, this is the place to be.
I have also found the folks that shoot IDPA to be very helpful as well. They like to talk guns and shooting sports.
Like me

ok here is the what I call good for a SD type of shooting, this is draw fire two and wait 4 seconds and go for the 3rd in the Head or neck are.

here is my Target

Here is my opinion on targets and what your shots should look like on those targets: (some/many may disagree)

If you are shooting for target practice, all rounds should be in the "X" ring, dead center mass regardless. If you're not there, keep practicing and don't get discouraged. Take little steps to get better with every shot. Most of us are not and that's why we practice. Don't worry about time limits. Take the shots when you're ready. Concentrate on all the fundamentals with each shot.

If you are shooting for SD practice, all rounds should be on an average body size target with no misses. If you're not there, keep practicing and don't get discouraged. Take little steps to get better with every shot. Speed now becomes key as a situation doesn't allow for you to take the time you take when target practicing. If the target you are using has scoring rings, block them out. If you can get a target with no scoring rings, use that. Don't get wrapped around a score or looking for the "X" ring. You are aiming center mass. (Again, IMO), Too many people put too much emphasis on score when trying to practice SD shooting "scenarios". All must remember that the tightness of a pattern while target shooting is the best it's ever going to be. You will not have the calmness and lack of time constraints in a SD scenario. As was stated by someone earlier, use the paper plate as a guide for this. I even use this method to assist novice shooters in building confidence during target practice shooting.

You must practice both ways in order to get better. Target practice builds that "muscle memory" for the fundamentals. This is EXTREMELY important as you will have many other things going through your head in a SD situation. You will need this as instinct.

Again, this is my opinion and others may disagree. I hope this helps.

I borrowed a Glock 17 from a coworker to do my Level III security qualification day after tomorrow... I took it to the range yesterday to try it out.

7 shots were from 3 yards, the rest (about 60-70 more) were all at 7 yards and 15 yards.

You guys are doing WAY better than me, but in my defense, I haven't been shooting much at all lately (maybe 4-5 times in the last 4 years, and all after I decided to get my CHL... LOL). I'm getting back to a regular shooting schedule now



I haven't shot a Glock in about 8 years.

The target is cracked at the top because the short reset of the Glock trigger surprised me once Still did better than with my Beretta 96D... that long trigger pull sucks for anything over 15' for me at the moment.

heres what mine looks like.

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30531" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

its a lil tighter now that I know the trigger better.

Let me share my thoughts, for what it's worth. One, a wise and experienced BTDT instructor told me you'll likely experience 1/2 your standard accuracy when in crisis mode. So if you train for 4 inch groupings you'll likely end up with 8 inch groups when it counts. With movement and other things going on, are you comfortable that is going to end the threat and not end up with a friendly getting shot? Two, it is certainly possible to shoot a golfball size grouping under duress, and I've seen it done by folks who train hard. I'm talking about small groups after dozens of rounds fired, on the timer and from 3 to about 20 yards (and from the draw). We can all do it if we train hard. Three, aim big miss big. Put an index card on your target and aim for it. Aim small. Start slow, start close. When you can shoot a small hole from 3 yards move back to 7 yards. And so on. Start from low ready, then work in from the draw. I don't mean to offend, but if you're all over a man sized target from 7 yards, that doesn't work. Get some instruction.

"Good enough" is your enemy.

Blinking Dog wrote:Let me share my thoughts, for what it's worth. One, a wise and experienced BTDT instructor told me you'll likely experience 1/2 your standard accuracy when in crisis mode. So if you train for 4 inch groupings you'll likely end up with 8 inch groups when it counts. With movement and other things going on, are you comfortable that is going to end the threat and not end up with a friendly getting shot? Two, it is certainly possible to shoot a golfball size grouping under duress, and I've seen it done by folks who train hard. I'm talking about small groups after dozens of rounds fired, on the timer and from 3 to about 20 yards (and from the draw). We can all do it if we train hard. Three, aim big miss big. Put an index card on your target and aim for it. Aim small. Start slow, start close. When you can shoot a small hole from 3 yards move back to 7 yards. And so on. Start from low ready, then work in from the draw. I don't mean to offend, but if you're all over a man sized target from 7 yards, that doesn't work. Get some instruction.

"Good enough" is your enemy.

I went back and re-read my post after reading this because you brought up some very good points and I agree with you on them all. So I would like to maybe clarify some things. And before I start, I am merely clarifying cause I see I could have been a bit more clear in what I was saying, not because I'm feeling "attacked" or anything. Like I said, I, myself, feel i probably could have worded better.

I too subscribe to the "aim big, miss big" theory. Having said that, I don't believe that in an SD type practice scenario, you should be trying to take the middle button of a shirt off. This allows for too much time sighting in. People will not take the shot cause it isn't "perfect". I think the index card works idea would work as well and I think the OP should strive to get to that point. I was assuming, maybe wrongly, that the OP was asking cause he was somewhat new. I know what assuming does but I guess I did it anyway. I suggested a paper plate because it will still cover the vital areas of a body. It will also lessen the frustration levels for beginners to SD type shooting practice; therefore, keep them trying.

I hope I have clarified my original thoughts on this subject. And again, I am simply clarifying because after reading it again, I can see where what I said may be construed as "aim big" and that is certainly not what I had intended. What I was getting at though was get away from scoring and pin-point aiming during SD practice. The "X" ring is not the only place to inflict enough damage to cancel the threat.

And lastly, having said all the above, I do believe and STRONGLY encourage marksmanship practice. That type of practice should be done just as much as SD practice. Marksmanship practice will help lock in the fundamentals so they become second nature.

MTICop wrote:And lastly, having said all the above, I do believe and STRONGLY encourage marksmanship practice. That type of practice should be done just as much as SD practice. Marksmanship practice will help lock in the fundamentals so they become second nature.

Marksmanship practice helps develop the muscle memory you will revert to using in a self-defense situation. Even if you don't stand with feet shoulder-width apart, hold with two hands, squint one eye, compose front sight with rear sight lined up on target, and slowly and steadily squeeze the trigger when the big bad monster attacks, the fact that you've practiced that type of pinpoint accuracy will ensure your gun is leveled in the general direction of the attacker and the trigger is squeezed fully and deliberately with the amount of speed needed to neutralize the threat.

When I first started shooting handguns more than 10 years ago (completely self taught BTW, little to no instruction), I was all over a full-size silhouette target when two-handed aiming and would actually miss the paper if I tried to simulate a quick response to a "threat". I can now shred fist-size or smaller holes in the target (with a few strays) while aiming and can keep all my rounds in the 5-ring of a DPS scoring silhouette target while doing fast target acquisition drills.

One type of practice lends itself to the other and vice versa for form a well-rounded pistol shooter, IMHO. Again, no formal training, though I'd like to get some soon.

Anyway, here are some of my targets, both shot with Walther PPS 9mm:

7 yards aiming (as a reference, the center grey shaded area of this target is about 2 1/2 inches wide, the outer circle is about 6 1/2 inches): http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab70 ... 700bfa.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

7 yards doing "double-tap plus one" drill (from rest, muzzle down, double-tap to COM, then a follow up head shot, all with speed as a factor) using standard DPS style silhouette used in CHL qualifying: http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab70 ... 95be96.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EDITED to add: this above is of course called the Mozambique drill, but couldn't think of the name last night when I posted this

Also, here is a "small silhouette" target with my Ruger LCP at 7 yards (this target measures about 10 inches x 20 inches and the bullet spread is about 4 x 5 (would easily fit in the 9-ring on the full-size DPS target): http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab70 ... 9718df.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here are some 7-yard targets with Glock 23, Glock 27, Walther PPS (left, middle, right) on standard size "dirty bird" targets, about 6 or 7 inch circle: http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab70 ... 9a6375.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And lastly a pair of 15-yards targets, 10-inch high-vis style, Glock 23 on left Glock 27 on right: http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab70 ... d8d730.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MTIcop - Thanks for your post. I hope my post didn't come across as too harsh, as that was not my intent. I think I have 2 hot button issues when it comes to guns: safety and accuracy. On the latter, I've seen guys high-fiving at the range over a man size target with holes all over it. Scary if you ask me, if that person intends to carry and try to save a life some time. I think it is important for all of us who carry to aspire to be accurate shooters. One CHL shooting the wrong folks due to poor marksmanship will reflect poorly on us all. So that's why I urge folks to get training. We men have to put our egos aside, which is hard. Ego is probably the biggest impediment to good shooting skill. For the record, I put my money where my mouth is. I have (and continue to) sought out high quality training. If that means I don't buy another gun and use the cash for a class, so be it. I feel that's a good trade off. Better to have one gun and be able to shoot really well than to have a house full of guns and be a poor shot. My 2 pennies.

Next time I go to the range, I'll bring a Camera and post some photos, hopefully I live up to everyone else!

wheelgun1958 wrote:

Now post the version that has enough pixels for us to all print it on our 3 foot by 4 foot printers we have at home

austinrealtor wrote:

wheelgun1958 wrote:

Now post the version that has enough pixels for us to all print it on our 3 foot by 4 foot printers we have at home

Though the target should be centered below the turban and above the nose.