TexasCHLforum.com

Ol Zeke wrote:For me, It's more about "less lethal".

A knife or baton is still generally considered deadly force.

chabouk wrote:Arizona passing "constitutional carry", Oklahoma legalizing open carry, NH legalizing switchblades

I Agree that state law has room to grow as far as freedom for citizens to arm themselves.

Grog wrote: You can use a stick "just a little", can't do that with a handgun.

I too carry a baton daily (almost). Depending on how you implement it - the state will most likely consider it deadly force. I know that a person would justified in shooting someone armed with some form of club, be it a bat, baton, hammer, ax handle, etc. A club by its manner of use would cause serious bodily injury - which meets the PC definition of deadly force.

People trained in PPCT or some similar form (martial arts etc) of tactics have demonstrated that they can use a baton to strike nerve motor points, and nerve motor points only. But you better be able to back it up. It is my opinion that a prosecutor will treat any club from an untrained person as deadly force...maybe even do it from a trained person.



To bring this back on topic - I feel that citizens should be able to carry whatever they want - however that is not where we are now in TX. To answer the OP's question - the CHL is exactly that, it is not a CWP. While we can speculate on ambiguities in the penal code, it is up to the LEO, prosecutor, and the grand jury as to what charges actually get filed against you. If all the CHL instructors, most LEOs, and most attorneys are telling you not to treat it as a CWP - you may want to heed that instruction.

(again - not that I agree with the spirit of those laws...but it is what we have to work with).

Ol Zeke wrote:As for "qualified", since when does someone need to be qualified in the use of the instrument of their defense?

I think it's a good idea to know what you are doing with potentially dangerous tools. It's way too easy to cut yourself with a knife, and an attacker can put a club where the sun doesn't shine if you don't know how to use it and maintain control of it.

The scene in Secondhand Lions where Uncle Hub takes on the juvenile delinquents is instructive, even though it's fiction.

- Jim

gigag04 wrote:To bring this back on topic - I feel that citizens should be able to carry whatever they want - however that is not where we are now in TX. To answer the OP's question - the CHL is exactly that, it is not a CWP. While we can speculate on ambiguities in the penal code, it is up to the LEO, prosecutor, and the grand jury as to what charges actually get filed against you. If all the CHL instructors, most LEOs, and most attorneys are telling you not to treat it as a CWP - you may want to heed that instruction.

(again - not that I agree with the spirit of those laws...but it is what we have to work with).

It seems to me, that what you are describing is an arbitrary application of the penal code, rather than an ‘ambiguity’. I think that it says what it says and at the very least 46.02 allows anyone who meets the requirements, to carry all three, concealed, in their vehicle. I think it is a shame that anyone would have to spend the time and money to defend their self on that point.

As for me, I guess I could start walking with a cane. Then when someone takes it away from me, I’m definitely justified.

Don’t get me wrong; I think training is a very good thing, especially for those without experience. My point is that our God given right to protect ourselves is not conditional on the amount or type of training we can afford to get.

I can’t help but remember what my Grandfather taught me:

“Never mistake education for intelligence…….. education (training) is good… intelligence is better.”

He also taught me that “you can learn something from everyone, even if they’re wrong”. So if you think I’m wrong, then just chalk it up to err… ah… Training. ?

The law is an imperfect human creation that is enforced by people who are fallible or worse.

I've said in other threads that we should exercise our rights fearlessly, but in my opinion we should also exercise our rights prudently and for good reasons.

In other words, I am not going to risk a class A misdemeanor UCW conviction for carrying a weapon that I don't know how to use effectively. The county has a lot of lawyers on salary -- good ones, with good conviction records. No one is pledging to fund my defense. I don't expect anyone to do so.

- Jim

I hate to resurrect this thread, but I found it by doing a search on "knife laws"...because I just bought a ordered a new Kabar Becker BK9 knife for hunting and camping, and I'm curious how much trouble I'd get into for putting it in the toolbox of my pickup.

I can understand being arrested carrying a so-called "illegal knife" if it's used as a weapon, or if it's in a context of being used as a weapon (you're carrying it concealed in a bar, for example), but I look upon knives primarily as tools, and usually carry them in that context. If I'm going out hunting or backpacking, a knife is a tool for cutting something that needs cutting, such as brush, firewood, etc. Given that I can carry my concealed firearm in state and national parks...why would I need to use a knife as a weapon, when I've got a handgun?

I wish there was a group like the NRA and TSRA that would lobby for some improvements for the current Texas knife laws.

Change the CHL to Concealed WEAPON license, as other states have now. REALLY should be of the Highest Priority as mentioned earlier along with OC, Campus, Parking, AND OTHERS.

----ALL SHOULD REALLY BE PUSHED TO THE MAX ASAP!----


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Just a 'what if...'

What if your handgun is not accessable, or fails to function, or lost in a struggle, when you really need it ???
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(A LEO lugs around a ton of choices, NOT just a pistol, for good proven reasons.)

Regards,
Blue

I kind of mirror Jim's thoughts.

Daddy taught me that you shouldn't bring anything to a fight that you don't want to wear like a rudder.

Anygun

MojoTexas wrote:I hate to resurrect this thread, but I found it by doing a search on "knife laws"...because I just bought a ordered a new Kabar Becker BK9 knife for hunting and camping, and I'm curious how much trouble I'd get into for putting it in the toolbox of my pickup.

I can understand being arrested carrying a so-called "illegal knife" if it's used as a weapon, or if it's in a context of being used as a weapon (you're carrying it concealed in a bar, for example), but I look upon knives primarily as tools, and usually carry them in that context. If I'm going out hunting or backpacking, a knife is a tool for cutting something that needs cutting, such as brush, firewood, etc. Given that I can carry my concealed firearm in state and national parks...why would I need to use a knife as a weapon, when I've got a handgun?

I wish there was a group like the NRA and TSRA that would lobby for some improvements for the current Texas knife laws.

In regards to carrying it out in the 'brush', as you describe... Well, surveyors and people who work out in the field routinely carry Machetes and other 'illegal knives' to clear brush while they are working.
You can say that if they're out in the field, they're always 'en route' to/from their survey truck, or you can say that while technically illegal, it's not enforced. Either way, I don't know anyone who's been busted yet, and I know a lot of guys that have them in their trucks, and routinely use them outside their trucks, many times with officers present, without any problems.

Just my 2c.

Yeah, I think it's silly too.

Well, I'm not going to worry about it too much then. I imagine it's one of those laws that is selectively enforced. As long as I'm not doing something else illegal, like getting busted for driving drunk or something, I doubt it'll ever be an issue.

Like I said, I tend to view knives as a tool, not so much as a weapon. Yes, they can be used as a last-ditch self-defense weapon, but so can just about anything else like a tire iron, mag-lite, or even a sharp pencil. If you're already in trouble, having an illegal knife would probably make it worse, but I doubt that it'd be a problem having it around the campsite if you were camping.

If I'm carrying an "illegal knife" with a blade larger than 5.5", I can guarantee that I'm going to be in the woods or something, in the pursuit of some lawful outdoor activity such as camping or hunting. Come to think about it, I'll bet the filet knife I already keep in my tackle box for fishing is technically an "illegal knife"...I'll have to measure the blade to see. The only thing I've ever used it are rainbow trout and bass and catfish.

MojoTexas

Remember the "on your about the person" element, and the exception for sporting activities.

You are quite right that these laws are designed to allow the police to arrest those who fall out of favor. It has become politically incorrect to say that "these people all carry knives," but that is the thinking behind them.

- Jim

By the way, here's what I ordered...it's a Kabar Becker BK9. It's described as a "combat bowie" with a 9" blade, so it's definitely an "illegal knife" if you're caught with it doing something naughty.

I plan to use it as a camping/survival/machete type knife...for clearing brush, building a shelter, etc. DEFINITELY not something I would carry on my person without a darn good reason.



http://j.mp/da1Exj

dubya wrote:Can't carry a leather slap either. The good ol' days are gone forever...

Edit: The Florida licenses lets you carry just about everything up to nuclear weapons there.

Ha! Sure seems so huh? I wish Texas had that but Im grateful we have what we do. Look at states like California. So many guns on the ban list their that we take for granted here. I was in a H&K discussion forum and this guy from CA was really upset because he couldnt carry a HK USP Tactical or Compact tactical due to it having a threaded barrel. That qualifies it as an assault weapon. Thats the very gun I carry and while I dont utilize the threaded barrel I just got it because I was able to get it for a great deal and cheaper that a used standard USP. But to think I couldnt carry it would depress me. CA is too complicated and restrictive and I plan to never go there while someplace like FL makes me envious.

But there are knives I would like to carry but dont because they are 'illegal'.