TexasCHLforum.com

sjfcontrol wrote:

AEA wrote:Nobody going to post that if your DL is expired then technically your CHL is invalid?

Statute?

Look it up!

I looked it up but I didn't see that in law.

I did see the requirement to show ID along with the CHL, in certain circumstances, but it doesn't specify a Texas DL. I think someone could show a Texas ID instead of a DL if they don't drive. I think someone with a Texas non-resident CHL probably doesn't have a Texas DL, but that doesn't make their CHL null and void.

I looked at 46.15 and it requires us to carry our CHL to get the nonapplicability but doesn't require any other ID, much less an unexpired Texas DL. Maybe I'm wrong. Show me the law if you want to change my mind.

tamc9395 wrote:he commented that most people have a CHL - without missing a beat I used mine and we all had a chuckle.

Nice!

AEA wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

AEA wrote:Nobody going to post that if your DL is expired then technically your CHL is invalid?

Statute?

Look it up!

You're the one making the claim -- YOU back it up!

jester wrote:I looked it up but I didn't see that in law.

I did see the requirement to show ID along with the CHL, in certain circumstances, but it doesn't specify a Texas DL. I think someone could show a Texas ID instead of a DL if they don't drive. I think someone with a Texas non-resident CHL probably doesn't have a Texas DL, but that doesn't make their CHL null and void.

I looked at 46.15 and it requires us to carry our CHL to get the nonapplicability but doesn't require any other ID, much less an unexpired Texas DL. Maybe I'm wrong. Show me the law if you want to change my mind.

Seems to me if you're driving, you will be asked for a driver's license. Then you show both license and CHL. If you're not driving and are asked for ID -- ANY state-issued picture id should do, and the CHL is a state-issued picture ID. On the other hand, I don't believe you are REQUIRED to produce any ID for an officer if you're not driving. I suppose there may be other situations, perhaps not involving police, where you need to produce ID for official purposes -- CHL should suffice there, too.

Young, nervous, new employee ? ... trying to do a good job ?

Did ya' count your money ?? Just sayin' ?!!

Mac .45 > > > > > >>>>>>> @ %%% @

sjfcontrol wrote:If you're not driving and are asked for ID -- ANY state-issued picture id should do, and the CHL is a state-issued picture ID. On the other hand, I don't believe you are REQUIRED to produce any ID for an officer if you're not driving. I suppose there may be other situations, perhaps not involving police, where you need to produce ID for official purposes -- CHL should suffice there, too.

You have this almost correct. If you are not driving and not carrying a weapon under the authority of your CHL, when are asked for ID by a police officer, you do not have to produce any specific document and can produce nothing as long as you correctly answer certain questions (and in many cases you can just refuse).

BUT, and this is very important, if you are ever carrying under the authority of your CHL and are asked for ID, you must produce your CHL and either a DL or a state ID card. government Code Section 411.205 is still in effect and limits the possible documents produced to those three. The penalty for not having the CHL has been removed (debatably) but the law is still in effect for the other forms of ID.

Before I moved here, I needed to get a PO Box setup so I could start to have things sent here. They needed two things to ID me, so I used my NC DL and the ID my county issued me as a ham radio operator allowed into the emergency operation center in case things get real bad.

It had my picture, name and was issued by the gov so it was good enough.

.45mac.40 wrote:

Young, nervous, new employee ? ... trying to do a good job ?

Did ya' count your money ?? Just sayin' ?!!

Mac .45 > > > > > >>>>>>> @ %%% @

LOL. He had rookie written all over him but he got the count right.

srothstein wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:If you're not driving and are asked for ID -- ANY state-issued picture id should do, and the CHL is a state-issued picture ID. On the other hand, I don't believe you are REQUIRED to produce any ID for an officer if you're not driving. I suppose there may be other situations, perhaps not involving police, where you need to produce ID for official purposes -- CHL should suffice there, too.

You have this almost correct. If you are not driving and not carrying a weapon under the authority of your CHL, when are asked for ID by a police officer, you do not have to produce any specific document and can produce nothing as long as you correctly answer certain questions (and in many cases you can just refuse).

BUT, and this is very important, if you are ever carrying under the authority of your CHL and are asked for ID, you must produce your CHL and either a DL or a state ID card. government Code Section 411.205 is still in effect and limits the possible documents produced to those three. The penalty for not having the CHL has been removed (debatably) but the law is still in effect for the other forms of ID.

Thanks, Steve -- Since the CHL IS an ID all by itself, is there any logic to requiring the second ID?
And as previously declared, does an expired DL invalidate the CHL?

I'm a teacher and we call that a teachable moment!

Matthew2000tx wrote:I'm a teacher and we call that a teachable moment!

As a former college professor, long-time industrial trainer and NRA Training Counselor, I completely agree.
The supervisor handled it beautifully in that regard.
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the lesson really sunk in.
TraCoun

sjfcontrol wrote:Thanks, Steve -- Since the CHL IS an ID all by itself, is there any logic to requiring the second ID?

this is the mistake many people make in their logic. The only ID the State recognizes as state issued ID is the DL or ID card from DPS. They don't recognize my TCLEOSE license, my state employee ID, or any other state issued papers as identification under the law. I do not truly understand their logic, except as a carry over of tradition, since many of the ID's (like the CHL) are harder to obtain and have better paperwork backing them up than either the DL or ID. I say this is tradition because if you go back as little as 50 years, it would be impossible to verify anything other than those two forms of ID on a regular basis. Of course, if you go back just over 100 years, you don't find the concept of ID in Texas, generally.

And as previously declared, does an expired DL invalidate the CHL?

This is a little trickier. Since you must show a valid DL or ID with your CHL, it presumes that the CHL would be invalid if you did not have one of them to show. If you get an ID and a DL, with staggered expiration dates, you would cover this possibility. And since DPS offers grace periods on DL renewals, it makes it even less clear.

To make it even more confusing, if you read the Government Code sections on eligibility, there is nothing mentioned about your driver's license or ID. But the Administrative Code (DPS rules) says you must submit a valid DL or ID number when you apply.

The way I would read all this, which is just my opinion, is that you would not be invalidated by having an expired DL with your current license, but you would not be allowed to renew until the DL was renewed. In other words, forgetting to renew for a couple days should not be a problem but deciding to walk everywhere and not getting an ID card would be.

srothstein wrote:To make it even more confusing, if you read the Government Code sections on eligibility, there is nothing mentioned about your driver's license or ID. But the Administrative Code (DPS rules) says you must submit a valid DL or ID number when you apply.

I have on good authority (from a coworker with a non-res CHL) that DPS no longer requires non-residents to get a Texas ID card before they apply for a Texas CHL, so it's entirely possible for someone with a Texas CHL to have no (other?) identification issued by the State of Texas. However, the Texas CHL is presumably valid.

Do any instructors who had non-resident students recently want to chime in?

Thanks again, Steve -- very clear and helpful, as usual. (As least as clear as anything so convoluted and ill-defined can be!)