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Re: arming someone else?

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:28 am
by gigag04
.30calSolution wrote:I'm not sure if this is state specific, but we have discussed it extensively on Ohioans for Concealed Carry. It's illegal if anyone inside your automobile has access to your firearm. Let's say you have it in the lockbox cabled to the seat or in the glovebox but the key is on your keychain in the ignition or cupholder(Or glovebox is unlocked). Yep, you guessed it...ILLEGAL.

Now, I am not sure what other things get thrown out of the window when you or anothers life is at stake. But, I do know that as a licensed individual no one else can have access to your firearm unless they are also licensed.

Please keep Ohio laws in Ohio. This is Texas CHL law specific - Texas couldn't give two hoots about Ohio law, and the reverse would be true was a well.

You may confuse some novice Texan gun owner.

Re: arming someone else?

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:29 am
by A-R
Beiruty wrote:When bullets starts flying and you or your friend would terminate a deadly threat, something tells me that the common sense will take over and legalities on technical basis will take a second row to your acts.
I wouldn't bet my freedom on the "common sense" of district attorneys, many of whom are aspiring politicians who need to pad their case file with convictions to appear "tough on crime" (don't mean to label all DA's in this way, just saying there are some out there, just as there are a lot of really good people working DA's offices) ..... all depends on way too many factors to get into here, but if the resulting shoot was anything other pure black -n- white good guy killed bad guy in self defense, you run a risk. Is that risk greater than the risk of being killed? Of course not. If it's some sort of hostage situation, like a bank takeover robbery or something, I can see the virtue in taking action.

But trying to save the day when a stop-n-rob actually gets you know, stopped and robbed? Don't play cop with a CHL.

Even cops get railroaded for good shoots. Just ask Leonardo Quintana, formerly of the Austin PD.

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/cit ... 94904.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Long story short = APD officer investigates suspicious car late at night. Cuffs driver, attempts to wake up passenger sleeping in back, passenger (who let's just say is not exactly a choir boy) wakes up, sees cop, reaches for gun in his waistband, cop and passenger struggle, cop breaks free, steps back and opens fire on passenger who is still in possession of his gun. Result: passenger is dead (and a second passenger is also shot) cop endures more than a year of legal hell, two-weeks suspension for failure to activate his video camera, calls from the "black community" for his job and possibly his life, grand jury investigation, IAD investigation, newspaper writing as if he is the criminal, an "independent auditor" who says he broke the law (even though the GJ didn't indict), and finally he gets busted for DWI in neighboring county and APD chief fires him.

Mr. Quintana is alive. And that's the best you can say about his heroic efforts at this point. And he was a POLICE OFFICER discharging his official duties.

If you and your BUG-using buddy try to play superhero during a quickie-mart robbery, do you think you'll be treated better or worse when there is a dead man lying on the floor with one of your bullets in him "who was really a good young man with a bright future"

Re: arming someone else?

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:38 am
by .30calSolution
gigag04 wrote:
.30calSolution wrote:I'm not sure if this is state specific, but we have discussed it extensively on Ohioans for Concealed Carry. It's illegal if anyone inside your automobile has access to your firearm. Let's say you have it in the lockbox cabled to the seat or in the glovebox but the key is on your keychain in the ignition or cupholder(Or glovebox is unlocked). Yep, you guessed it...ILLEGAL.

Now, I am not sure what other things get thrown out of the window when you or anothers life is at stake. But, I do know that as a licensed individual no one else can have access to your firearm unless they are also licensed.

Please keep Ohio laws in Ohio. This is Texas CHL law specific - Texas couldn't give two hoots about Ohio law, and the reverse would be true was a well.

You may confuse some novice Texan gun owner.
I'm not trying to confuse anyone, I just wasn't sure if the laws were similar in Texas. I don't have several years of studying TxPC under my belt, I have 7 years of studying Ohio ORC. So, I am just trying to figure out some of the differences as I go. Tone it down a bit there bud. The reason I'm here is I'm that confused Novice.

Your clearly not contributing to the thread so it's obvious you came here to do a little bashing, thanks for the warm welcome. ;-)

Edit: Just to clear this up so not to confuse anyone. My first post was originally meant to be a question as you can see by the first sentence but i quickly lost track. How does TxPC handle your firearm being in a car with unlicensed individuals in the example I had given?

Re: arming someone else?

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:00 am
by blue
.30- VERY WISE to be cautious of the laws.

:cheers2: , Welcome to Texas!

(Old saying-- 'I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here soon as I could!')
------------------------
Initially THE very reason my wife got her first CHL was because we both worried that--- if I simply stepped out of the car for any reason, and left a weapon in the car, THAT put her alone with a loaded handgun WITHOUT a CHL. (Back then = Really BAD news!).

Things are a little better now days with the new MPA rules, BUT-- CHL holders (THE GOOD GUYS AND GALS!), have a really long way to go in getting the law to treat us fair and square.

Vermont and Alaska and Arizona and others are WAY, WAY AHEAD OF TEXAS!

Regards,
Blue

Re: arming someone else?

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:15 am
by Liberty
Hoi Polloi wrote:My husband, who is reading over my shoulder, said that despite not being a lawyer, he thinks the below section of the Texas penal code would apply in such a situation so that necessity would justify unlawful possession of a firearm, making that particular aspect of the legality of handing a BUG to an unlicensed bystander/friend a non-issue.

PENAL CODE
TITLE 2. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY
CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

Sec. 9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;
(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and
(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.
The necessity clause is one place where common sense is allowed to reign in the P.C.
You have it right, but it becomes a lot clearer when we are protecting life than if we are solely protecting property.

I am not a lawyer I work for a living.

Re: arming someone else?

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:53 am
by dicion
.30calSolution wrote: How does TxPC handle your firearm being in a car with unlicensed individuals in the example I had given?
PC ยง46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries
on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the
person is not:
...
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned
by the person or under the person's control.
Now... Technically, according to law, unless you are the one driving the vehicle, or are it's owner, it appears that it may be illegal.

However, in actual practice, I have never heard of anyone having any problems with having a handgun in the vehicle with unlicensed persons other than the driver or owner.
The key words are 'Intentionally' and 'Knowingly' in my opinion. If a passenger doesn't know there's a firearm in the glove box (or claims as such), then there is no 'Intent' or 'Knowledge' of the carry.
Unless an officer can prove that the passenger knew the handgun was there, there is no violation committed.

Now! That is only for Handguns. There are no restrictions on carry of long guns in Texas, at all.
I routinely carry an AR-15, locked and loaded, in the back seat of my truck, in open view, when going to my office at 3AM in response to the alarm company calling and waking me up, telling me the alarm's going off. Somehow, I ALWAYS beat the police there, and I'm 20 minutes away... Not going to take any chances ;)

I recall a member of the forums once posting that they have driven cross-city on a motorcycle with a long gun of some kind slung around their back :thumbs2:

Re: arming someone else?

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:31 pm
by Cobra Medic
.30calSolution wrote:It's illegal if anyone inside your automobile has access to your firearm. Let's say you have it in the lockbox cabled to the seat or in the glovebox but the key is on your keychain in the ignition or cupholder(Or glovebox is unlocked). Yep, you guessed it...ILLEGAL.
God bless Texas!

I'm not a lawyer, so ask yours about locked containers in relation to "on or about his or her person" in Texas case law.