TexasCHLforum.com

stevie_d_64 wrote:

TexasTony wrote:Im not one to tell anyone how to live but if your carrying wouldn't be easier to just follow the law and avoid bars? There are other no no places but bars would probably get you the most scrutiny from LEO. If its for socialization suggest to your companions a non 51% bar and grill or similar establishment

Bingo!!!

I don't drink.

There was a story posted on here (possibly by TAM, IIRC) about a man who had taken his nurse girlfriend out to a place that was illegal to carry. He carried anyway, and that saved his life when they were approached by two armed guys and blocked in by a van with 2 more assailants. In that instance, the responding LEOs didn't give him any hassle over it, but a jerk DA decided to prosecute the shoot. I don't think the guy was ever bothered for where he'd been, or maybe he never told them, idk.

Embalmo wrote:Guys,
Just a hypothetical sit-What if I have to justifiably draw my weapon (or somehow get outed) in a place that is legal to carry when it can be proven (traced back) that I would have had to be in a place where it isn't legal to carry? That is, would I have to be caught in a "no no" place to be prosecuted. The situation that I think would be most likely would be leaving from a bar (sober) and having to draw in the parking lot. Thoughts? Another likely scenario, I think, would be driving away from a "no no" place and answering the question, "Where you headed from?" when pulled over. Embalmo

IANAL, but I don't think it going to be a problem with where you were, but it may cause additional problems where you are.

Your first hypothetical, leaving a bar and drawing in the parking lot. They can't convict you just for saying you were in a bar. They have no evidence that you were carrying in the bar. No witnesses, etc. They can't force you to testify against yourself in court so there would be no evidence other than "your confession."

In the real world, they would likely look for evidence that you were intoxicated. If you showed any indication, they probably would not give you any leeway and arrest you.

If you are ever in a situation where you have to use deadly force to protect yourself, you don't need to tell the police where you were etc. Now, if you happen to use deadly force inside the bar, or school or whatever, you have some serious problems.

However if you have just left a bar, and you were carrying illegally in there, but are now on the sidewalk or parking lot or whereever and have to use deadly force, then you tell the cop what the other guy did that caused you to be in fear of your life or others life, and that you had no option but to use deadly force. If that is truely the case, the evidence will show that, and what took place 2 minutes beforehand has no bearing, and you don't need to discuss that with the officer.

If you are taken in for questioning, you need to let your lawyer explain what he thinks needs to be added to your story if anything. Not giving the police information that they don't need isn't going to help you much. If it clearly shows that the guy had a gun, knife or whatever, and has previous criminal record for theft, assault, whatever, your probably going to be good to go.

Embalmo wrote:

stevie_d_64 wrote:

TexasTony wrote:Im not one to tell anyone how to live but if your carrying wouldn't be easier to just follow the law and avoid bars? There are other no no places but bars would probably get you the most scrutiny from LEO. If its for socialization suggest to your companions a non 51% bar and grill or similar establishment

Bingo!!!

I don't drink.

Well, there ya go...Problem solved...

stevie_d_64 wrote:

Embalmo wrote:

stevie_d_64 wrote:

TexasTony wrote:Im not one to tell anyone how to live but if your carrying wouldn't be easier to just follow the law and avoid bars? There are other no no places but bars would probably get you the most scrutiny from LEO. If its for socialization suggest to your companions a non 51% bar and grill or similar establishment

Bingo!!!

I don't drink.

Well, there ya go...Problem solved...

Well my OP indicated hypothetical, but unfortunately, there are unavoidable gun "no no" places.

Embalmo wrote:Well my OP indicated hypothetical, but unfortunately, there are unavoidable gun "no no" places.

Doesn't the same principle apply? Doesn't matter if it's a bar, 30.06 business, etc.

tacticool wrote:

Embalmo wrote:Well my OP indicated hypothetical, but unfortunately, there are unavoidable gun "no no" places.

Doesn't the same principle apply? Doesn't matter if it's a bar, 30.06 business, etc.

Actually it was suggested that one could/should choose another place to socialize instead of a 51% establishment. I indicated that my OP used the word hypothetical because I did not asked the question, "If I refrain from carrying in places where it is illegal will I eliminate the chances of prosecution?" I'm clear on that. I want to know if anyone has first hand experience or specific knowledge of the law about what would happen if video surveillance indicated that a CHL visited a "no no" establishment prior to being "outed" in a legal place. With the number of video cameras around, I think it would likely be pointless to lie, or withhold information about one's prior location.

Embalmo

TexasTony wrote:Im not one to tell anyone how to live but if your carrying wouldn't be easier to just follow the law and avoid bars? There are other no no places but bars would probably get you the most scrutiny from LEO. If its for socialization suggest to your companions a non 51% bar and grill or similar establishment

I would argue a school would cause more noise.

texasjeep44 wrote:...then you tell the cop what the other guy did that caused you to be in fear of your life or others life, and that you had no option but to use deadly force.
[...]
If you are taken in for questioning, you need to let your lawyer explain what he thinks needs to be added to your story if anything.

If you had to use deadly force, I would highly recommend that you follow the advice of experts regarding what to tell the police. These are copied and pasted from frequent online conversations on the topic:

Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1


Personal Defense's Massad Ayoob - what to do after a self defense shooting:
Hoping and Assuming you survived...
1. Call 911
2. Officer this person attacked me, I will sign the complaint,
3. Officer here is the evidence (knife, gun, ball bat, whatever).
4. Officer these are the witnesses.
5. Officer you will have my full cooperation in 24 hrs after I see my attorney.


An alternative:
The advice I got from a former LEO now lawyer who holds Use Of Deadly Force seminars was:
1. Call 9-1-1. Ask for an ambulance and police. Asking for an ambulance first then police shows the human side of you.
2. Tell the operator "I shot a man that was trying to hurt me". The key words are shot (not killed, off'ed, smoked, etc), man (not a teenager, child, mo-[abbreviated profanity deleted], etc).
3. Give your location and describe yourself. Most likely your description will be relayed to the first responding police officer. It would be to your advantage if the officer has an idea of who is the "good guy".
4. Do not answer the operator's questions for details. You are being recorded so you have to be brief. Say that you are really busy right now but you are willing to stay on the line until police arrive.
5. Speak clearly. This projects the image of being in control and not panic.
6. Do not have your pistol in your hand when the officer arrives. Holster it when you see the car approach. Keep your hands visible from this point forward.
7. Give the officer a brief non-emotional description of the events. Give enough to make the initial police report. He/she needs basic information to decide if you are free to leave, getting a free ride to the police station for more questions, or getting the handcuffs.
8. Avoid giving out too much information. Your emotions will come out and may work against you. Say that you are trying your hardest not to throw up right now and would rather answer questions later. Police officers who have been involved in a shooting will sympathize with this. If you did #7 well, this should not be a problem.
9. Others. Don't argue with witnesses. Don't act aggressively even if you're angry. Move slowly.

Embalmo wrote:I want to know if anyone has first hand experience or specific knowledge of the law about what would happen if video surveillance indicated that a CHL visited a "no no" establishment prior to being "outed" in a legal place. With the number of video cameras around, I think it would likely be pointless to lie, or withhold information about one's prior location.

I work in a bar. If I was involved in a shooting after work, I wouldn't post the details on a public forum until the statute of limitations ran out.

megs wrote:

Embalmo wrote:I want to know if anyone has first hand experience or specific knowledge of the law about what would happen if video surveillance indicated that a CHL visited a "no no" establishment prior to being "outed" in a legal place. With the number of video cameras around, I think it would likely be pointless to lie, or withhold information about one's prior location.

I work in a bar. If I was involved in a shooting after work, I wouldn't post the details on a public forum until the statute of limitations ran out.

So when will the staute of limitations run out?

I may be wrong, IANAL, but I thought that one isn't required by law to answer the question "where were you coming from" nor "where are you heading". I may not fully understand the OP I guess.

I would shut my mouth, and if they wanted to charge me with something then they can have a go at it.

If I have to draw and shoot then all they are getting from me if I am still alive is.

1. I feared for my life
2. I want him arrested
3. I want to speak to my attorney

Nothing more. When the LEO's that arrived on scene go in front of the judge and 12 of my peers they will be asked what the defendant said when they arrived. I want them (the LEO's)to repeat # 1-3 of the above and that's it. Loose lips sink ships.

Where I was a few minutes before the incident is not something I would choose to answer at the scene.
Were you carrying in the bar? Don't you know that it's illegal to carry in a bar?
Oh, so you left the bar and went and got your gun out of your car? If you were at your car, why didn't you just leave? You came back because you wanted to kill him, didn't you?
All of that can wait until after I've spoken to my attorney.

.30calSolution wrote:I may be wrong, IANAL, but I thought that one isn't required by law to answer the question "where were you coming from" nor "where are you heading". I may not fully understand the OP I guess.

I would shut my mouth, and if they wanted to charge me with something then they can have a go at it.

If I have to draw and shoot then all they are getting from me if I am still alive is.

1. I feared for my life
2. I want him arrested
3. I want to speak to my attorney

Nothing more. When the LEO's that arrived on scene go in front of the judge and 12 of my peers they will be asked what the defendant said when they arrived. I want them (the LEO's)to repeat # 1-3 of the above and that's it. Loose lips sink ships.

I guess the problem here is that I'm not thinking so much about shooting, or self-defense, I'm more oriented to being outed where it can be proven that I was carrying. Ahhright-A couple of months ago I took my car through the laser wash @ HEB and then spent 20 minutes or so drying it in the parking lot, and applying tire foam. Somehow, I guess when I was reaching up to dry the roof of the van my T shirt lopped over my Bersa and tucked itself really good behind my IWB holster. Sooo-For at least 15 minutes, I was in a busy HEB parking lot open carrying. When I noticed, I pulled my T shirt over it and drove my half-dry van immediately home. I happen to know that HEB has surveillance cameras all over the place, so what if HEB was 30.06 (they're not) and I had walked in just before that (I didn't). On the way out I half expected to have to show my CHL to a LEO and explain the wardrobe malfunction.

So let's say I had a similar wardrobe malfunction in an IRS, or elementary school parking lot filled with staff member witnesses and surveillance cameras (or possibly ratted out by an anti-gun friend of a friend). Would I be home free from prosecution if I got caught in the lot of a place I had obviously had been inside.

Yea, I know, this should have been my original post.
Embalmo