CHL Instructor says State Fair is an amusement park...

[Kalrog]

... I'm wondering what statute or state law gives them the authority to conduct random searches w/o probable cause.

I wonder that same thing WRT sobriety checkpoints.

[doejohn]

Oh, I feel so safe now. Officers "everywhere" and cars "will be searched"

Will an officer walk you back to your car if you ask? Yea right!

Cars will be randomly searched? OMG This is more frightening than any ride or thug! Is this correct? Do they have a right to do that? Can't you refuse?

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 74e7e.html

Officers 'will be literally everywhere' at fair

01:10 PM CDT on Tuesday, September 26, 2006

By KATIE MENZER / The Dallas Morning News


State Fair of Texas officials announced Tuesday that Dallas police officers will be as common as corny dogs on the fairgrounds this year.

“The key to our success has always been the high visibility of our officers,� said Deputy Chief Jesse Reyes at a press conference about safety and security at the fair in 2006. “We will be literally everywhere."

The fair opens Friday and runs through Oct. 22. Chief Reyes, who heads up the fair’s police force, said they’ll have 200 officers working at any time during fair hours, and that number will increase during high-capacity events such as Texas-OU weekend.

Police - who will monitor the fair by car, foot, horse, golf cart, surveillance cameras and elevated platforms - will also be searching vehicles and coolers. No coolers will be allowed in the Cotton Bowl during sporting events, and metal detectors will be used to search for illegal guns and other contraband at the fair gates.

Dan Dudley, the fair's ride-safety inspector, also asked that fairgoers come prepared for the Midway.

He said devices such as cell phones and glasses should be held securely in a fanny pack before fairgoers board amusement rides.

Also, wear sensible shoes, not flip-flops.

“Most of our incidents are slips and trips because people don’t wear the proper footwear,� Mr. Dudley said.

[Mithras61]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 74e7e.html

Officers 'will be literally everywhere' at fair

01:10 PM CDT on Tuesday, September 26, 2006

By KATIE MENZER / The Dallas Morning News


State Fair of Texas officials announced Tuesday that Dallas police officers will be as common as corny dogs on the fairgrounds this year.

“The key to our success has always been the high visibility of our officers,” said Deputy Chief Jesse Reyes at a press conference about safety and security at the fair in 2006. “We will be literally everywhere."

The fair opens Friday and runs through Oct. 22. Chief Reyes, who heads up the fair’s police force, said they’ll have 200 officers working at any time during fair hours, and that number will increase during high-capacity events such as Texas-OU weekend.

Lessee... according to the Handbook of Texas (http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/onl ... /lks2.html) the average attendance since the 1990s was over 3,000,000 in the three-week version of the event. That's an average of nearly 145,000 people per day. Obviously not all events will be as heravily attended as others, but we're working with averages here (it's all we've got). By my reckoning, that means the officers are outnumbered by about 715-to-1. I suppose that's high-profile (not what <I> call high-profile, but that's a different discussion), but I find myself wondering how well they can protect me if they have to if they have to identify the pick pocket or the random mugger...

[txinvestigator]

Oh, I feel so safe now. Officers "everywhere" and cars "will be searched"

Will an officer walk you back to your car if you ask? Yea right!

Cars will be randomly searched? OMG This is more frightening than any ride or thug! Is this correct? Do they have a right to do that? Can't you refuse?

They can refuse you entry if you refuse a car search.

[1TallTXn]

{snip}metal detectors will be used to search for illegal guns and other contraband at the fair gates. {snip}

was the illegal guns intentional or a typist assuming that all guns are illegal???

My understanding is that CHLers are legal to carry at the fair if they jump through hoops.

this statement in the story seems to (indirectly) support that.

[kauboy]

{snip}metal detectors will be used to search for illegal guns and other contraband at the fair gates. {snip}

was the illegal guns intentional or a typist assuming that all guns are illegal???

My understanding is that CHLers are legal to carry at the fair if they jump through hoops.

this statement in the story seems to (indirectly) support that.

Yes the "illegal guns" usage was intentional. The same wording is used on most signs in restaurants. "Notice: it is illegal to posses an unlicensed firearm on these premesis..." The wording is to let all patrons know that if you cannot legally carry that pistol, don't bring it in here. (yes the "license" part is misleading in Texas, but the point stands)

As for the State Fair:
From my understanding, and through the interpretation of my CHL instructor, the only "amusement park" in the metroplex is Six Flags. The State Fair falls short of a few characteristics of an amusement park:

§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE(f.1)
"Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or
outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for
use by the public that is located in a county with a population of
more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface
area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is
open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has
security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not
include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or
walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

The first thing is obvious since the rides are not permanent as opposed to the Texas Giant or Titan.
The second is the fact that the fair only runs about a fifth of the required number of days.

So, yes, if you have a valid CHL and wish to carry, do so proudly. As for the vehicle searches. They are not mandatory. If you wish to refuse one, you simply won't be let into the Fair. Its still your choice. We are not given any "right" to visit the Fair. They don't need probable cause to search it. Since you wish to enter their grounds, they wish to search your car. Its the same principal behind why all vehicles within the gates of the White House get searched. Its not to presume that the gardener is a terrorist, Its simply to ensure that all is well and the other people in attendance are safe.

Besides, if they have an incompetent person conducting the search, they can only do so under the direction of an officer of Dallas. So they will still have to report to them and they will clear up the reason for you being allowed to have that handgun in your glovebox. You can't get arrested by a Fair Volunteer and they can't legally confiscate anything.

[hirundo82]

If the searches are conducted by the DPD, I'm wondering what statute or state law gives them the authority to conduct random searches w/o probable cause.

Easy--it's all in the name of homeland security. Where's your sense of patriotism? If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to be afraid of. What's wrong with giving up a few constitutional rights for a sense [abbreviated profanity deleted] false security?

[kauboy]

YOUR NOT GIVING UP YOUR RIGHTS!!!

Its your choice whether or not you wish to visit that place. You are not being forced to do anything. If you don't want you vehicle searched, DON'T GO. It is completely voluntary. There is absolutely no basis for believing that your constitutional rights have been violated. The Patriot Act has nothing to do with the searches. Its all about the owner's ability to provide for a safe environment for their patrons. And they have every right to search your vehicle if you are going to use their business' facilities. Call it a trade, if you will. They are under no obligation to let you in if you don't want a search. Its their business. They can set any rules they like.

[Liberty]

YOUR NOT GIVING UP YOUR RIGHTS!!!

Its your choice whether or not you wish to visit that place. You are not being forced to do anything. If you don't want you vehicle searched, DON'T GO. It is completely voluntary. There is absolutely no basis for believing that your constitutional rights have been violated. The Patriot Act has nothing to do with the searches. Its all about the owner's ability to provide for a safe environment for their patrons. And they have every right to search your vehicle if you are going to use their business' facilities. Call it a trade, if you will. They are under no obligation to let you in if you don't want a search. Its their business. They can set any rules they like.

I have a couple of free tickets to go there and tossed them. I am not going to willingly let any stranger paw over my stuff. Its just not right. I guess thats why I'll drive rather than fly if I possibly can. Perhaps I came from a different time and place, but it seems to me me that we have very slowly lost our rights of privacy. In this case the bad guys have won.

[txinvestigator]

Dallas has a great transit system. You can take a bus and not worry about your vehicle being searched.

[Renegade]

and is off limits for CHL carry.

I know this comes up every year, but I talked to him yesterday. He is an aquaintence of mine, and he teaches the CHL class about 6 times a year. He said he was told by DPS last time he renewed his instructor qualifications that the State Fair in Dallas is considered an amusement park under the definition in the CHL laws, and it is unlawful for anyone to carry a weapon there with a CHL.


SOOO..........

Just throwing this out guys.
What's the story?>??

Story is your friend is NOT qualified to teach the CHL class, and should either learn the law or relinquish his teaching license.

Fact is, it does not matter if it is an amusement park or not, as it is legal to carry at an amusement park unless they give 30.06. Some folks seem to have a severe case if AADD, and need to read 46.035 all the way to (i).

No offense intended, but there is no reason for an instructor to not know the law.

[Renegade]

YOUR NOT GIVING UP YOUR RIGHTS!!!

Its your choice whether or not you wish to visit that place. You are not being forced to do anything. If you don't want you vehicle searched, DON'T GO. It is completely voluntary. There is absolutely no basis for believing that your constitutional rights have been violated. The Patriot Act has nothing to do with the searches. Its all about the owner's ability to provide for a safe environment for their patrons. And they have every right to search your vehicle if you are going to use their business' facilities. Call it a trade, if you will. They are under no obligation to let you in if you don't want a search. Its their business. They can set any rules they like.

Obviously you have been fully indoctrinated.

[txinvestigator]

YOUR NOT GIVING UP YOUR RIGHTS!!!

Its your choice whether or not you wish to visit that place. You are not being forced to do anything. If you don't want you vehicle searched, DON'T GO. It is completely voluntary. There is absolutely no basis for believing that your constitutional rights have been violated. The Patriot Act has nothing to do with the searches. Its all about the owner's ability to provide for a safe environment for their patrons. And they have every right to search your vehicle if you are going to use their business' facilities. Call it a trade, if you will. They are under no obligation to let you in if you don't want a search. Its their business. They can set any rules they like.

Obviously you have been fully indoctrinated.

Its not indoctrination, its the truth. Whether you and I like it or not.

[txinvestigator]

and is off limits for CHL carry.

I know this comes up every year, but I talked to him yesterday. He is an aquaintence of mine, and he teaches the CHL class about 6 times a year. He said he was told by DPS last time he renewed his instructor qualifications that the State Fair in Dallas is considered an amusement park under the definition in the CHL laws, and it is unlawful for anyone to carry a weapon there with a CHL.


SOOO..........

Just throwing this out guys.
What's the story?>??

Story is your friend is NOT qualified to teach the CHL class, and should either learn the law or relinquish his teaching license.

Fact is, it does not matter if it is an amusement park or not, as it is legal to carry at an amusement park unless they give 30.06. Some folks seem to have a severe case if AADD, and need to read 46.035 all the way to (i).

No offense intended, but there is no reason for an instructor to not know the law.

You are correct that the State Fair is not off limits. I will even go as far to say that DPS never told a class I was in that the SFOT is an amusement park.

Are you an instructor?

[kauboy]

Obviously you have been fully indoctrinated.

Obviously somebody is paranoid. Just don't go dude. You don't have some unwritten right to go there.

No, as a matter of fact, I want you to go. And, I want you to outright refuse the search if they pick you. Make a big deal out of it and try to make them feel like they're trampling on your rights. I'm curious to know what will happen. You might even make the news. Hey, you should go to the airport and refuse to let them look through your carry-on baggage too. Then demand your rights. I mean come on, its your stuff, and you're not a terrorist, right?

Ok, I'm half kidding, but honestly what are your choices???

BINGO!!! DON'T GO!, ALLOW THE SEARCH, or your personal favorite, STAND YOUR GROUND AND FIGHT "THE SYSTEM" THAT'S OUT TO GET YOU.

Oh, and don't forget that tin-foil. You might need to make an impromptu hat.

EDIT: Just saw your post TX. Thanks. I was starting to think no one else would stand up.