Which Applies: CHL or MPA?

[LarryH]

Motorist Protection Act

[G26ster]

I don't believe you will have violated the law. That was what i was trying to say with my first post. Carrying concealed is not legally prohibited as a result of a "guns must be unloaded sign". Not a 30.06-compliant sign......

I did not mention any sign in my question, but thanks..

what is the acronym for MPA?

So you are saying that the MPA takes precedence over my CHL, in that there is no penalty to failure to conceal in the range or the gunshop? If I had no CHL, I would naturally agree. My question was based on the fact I have a CHL, and I wanted to know if in any way I was still held to 46.035 when I un-concealed at the range or gunshop.

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

[Chityworker]

what is the acronym for MPA?

Motorist Protection Act

[C-dub]

what is the acronym for MPA?

Motorist Protection Act

Other way around everyone. MPA is the acronym for Motorist Protection Act.

Moving along ... the MPA doesn't trump the CHL. If you carry a loaded concealed handgun as would if you had a CHL outside of your home, car, or your business then you are UCW. However, you may carry an unloaded handgun in a case or bag or whatever just like when transporting a gun to and from a range or gunsmith if you don't have a CHL.

Also, IMO, the CHL trumps the MPA and if one has a CHL they cannot carry in their vehicle without their CHL and claim MPA.

[Bart]

Also, IMO, the CHL trumps the MPA and if one has a CHL they cannot carry in their vehicle without their CHL and claim MPA.

You can believe whatever you want but according to that argument you are committing a crime when you intentionally fail to conceal at a shooting range, or when handgun hunting, or when you clean your handgun inside your own home.

[C-dub]

Also, IMO, the CHL trumps the MPA and if one has a CHL they cannot carry in their vehicle without their CHL and claim MPA.

You can believe whatever you want but according to that argument you are committing a crime when you intentionally fail to conceal at a shooting range, or when handgun hunting, or when you clean your handgun inside your own home.

Folks have been able to do those things long before MPA or CHL. Those are expected activities in an expected place on private property the owner allows. And if you are hunting, you had better have a hunting license.

[Bart]

I read the actual law.

I can't find anything in MPA that excludes concealed licensees, security guards, or anyone except criminals.

I can't find anything in the CHL law that denies us any other exceptions in 46.15 and
I can't find anything in the CHL law that says only some parts of 46.02 apply if you were issued a CHL but don't have it with you.

If I missed it, quotes and cites can prove me wrong.

[C-dub]

I read the actual law. I can't find anything in MPA that excludes CHL, security guards, or anyone except criminals. I can't find anything in the CHL law that denies you the ability to shoot at a range etc. if you are issued a CHL, whether or not you have your CHL with you.

If I missed it, quotes and cites can prove me wrong.

I didn't say or intend to say either one of those things.

Folks have been able to do those things long before MPA or CHL. Those are expected activities in an expected place on private property the owner allows. And if you are hunting, you had better have a hunting license.

and

Moving along ... the MPA doesn't trump the CHL. If you carry a loaded concealed handgun as would if you had a CHL outside of your home, car, or your business then you are UCW. However, you may carry an unloaded handgun in a case or bag or whatever just like when transporting a gun to and from a range or gunsmith if you don't have a CHL.

Just like flipping the acronym thing around, you flipped the MPA vs. CHL around. I didn't say the MPA excluded a CHL. I based my opinion on the statute that says anyone carrying under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411 must have their plastic with them whenever actually carrying. I know the penalty has been removed for not displaying it when asked for ID, but it is also just my opinion that it doesn't mean the penalty has been removed for not being able to display it because it was forgotten at home. This will probably have to answered by the courts if someone is ever put in this situation and takes it to court.

[C-dub]

Bart, I'd also like to mention that I don't know which one of us is correct and you are right that this is just what I believe.

[jester]

I can't find anything in the CHL law that says only some parts of 46.02 apply if you were issued a CHL but don't have it with you.

Either 46.02 applies or it doesn't.

If it doesn't apply, then you're not guilty of UCW. You may be guilty of some other offense, but you can't violate 46.02 if 46.02 doesn't apply.

If it does apply, then all of it applies. That includes 46.02(a)(1) and 46.02(a)(2) - the whole enchilada.

[Beiruty]

If there is range, then you are covered under 46.15.(b)(3). If you enter a guns shop, it is a private business, if you look at the salespeople all of them are open carriers. If you get a permission from a manger or a person of authority you can unconcealed and even open carry! I visit a friend of mine and there I do unconcealed and make safe while watching a game. Did I commit a crime, nope!

46.15(b)(3)

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
...(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:

(1) peace officers or special investigators under Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section prohibits a peace officer or special investigator from carrying a weapon in this state, including in an establishment in this state serving the public, regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator is engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's or investigator's duties while carrying the weapon;

(2) parole officers and neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:

(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and

(B) in compliance with policies and procedures adopted by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice regarding the possession of a weapon by an officer while on duty;

(3) community supervision and corrections department officers appointed or employed under Section 76.004, Government Code, and neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:

(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and

(B) authorized to carry a weapon under Section 76.0051, Government Code;

(4) a judge or justice of a federal court, the supreme court, the court of criminal appeals, a court of appeals, a district court, a criminal district court, a constitutional county court, a statutory county court, a justice court, or a municipal court who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code;

(5) an honorably retired peace officer or federal criminal investigator who holds a certificate of proficiency issued under Section 1701.357, Occupations Code, and is carrying a photo identification that:

(A) verifies that the officer honorably retired after not less than 15 years of service as a commissioned officer; and

(B) is issued by a state or local law enforcement agency;

(6) a district attorney, criminal district attorney, county attorney, or municipal attorney who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code;

(7) an assistant district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, or assistant county attorney who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code;

(8) a bailiff designated by an active judicial officer as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code, who is:

(A) licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Chapter 411, Government Code; and

(B) engaged in escorting the judicial officer; or

(9) a juvenile probation officer who is authorized to carry a firearm under Section 142.006, Human Resources Code.

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution;

(2) is traveling;

(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

(4) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas Private Security Board, if the person is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as an officer commissioned under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, or is traveling to or from the person's place of assignment and is wearing the officer's uniform and carrying the officer's weapon in plain view;

(5) acts as a personal protection officer and carries the person's security officer commission and personal protection officer authorization, if the person:

(A) is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as a personal protection officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, or is traveling to or from the person's place of assignment; and

(B) is either:

(i) wearing the uniform of a security officer, including any uniform or apparel described by Section 1702.323(d), Occupations Code, and carrying the officer's weapon in plain view; or

(ii) not wearing the uniform of a security officer and carrying the officer's weapon in a concealed manner;

(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;

(7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises; or

(8) is a student in a law enforcement class engaging in an activity required as part of the class, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity and the person is:

(A) on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted; or

(B) en route between those premises and the person's residence and is carrying the weapon unloaded.

(c) The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a club does not apply to a noncommissioned security guard at an institution of higher education who carries a nightstick or similar club, and who has undergone 15 hours of training in the proper use of the club, including at least seven hours of training in the use of the club for nonviolent restraint. For the purposes of this subsection, "nonviolent restraint" means the use of reasonable force, not intended and not likely to inflict bodily injury.

(d) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a firearm or carrying of a club do not apply to a public security officer employed by the adjutant general under Section 431.029, Government Code, in performance of official duties or while traveling to or from a place of duty.

(e) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a ceremony in which the knife or sword is significant to the performance of the ceremony.

(f) Section 46.03(a)(6) does not apply to a person who possesses a firearm or club while in the actual discharge of official duties as:

(1) a member of the armed forces or state military forces, as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code; or

(2) an employee of a penal institution.

(g) The provisions of Sections 46.02 and 46.03 prohibiting the possession or carrying of a club do not apply to an animal control officer who holds a certificate issued under Section 829.006, Health and Safety Code, and who possesses or carries an instrument used specifically for deterring the bite of an animal while the officer is in the performance of official duties under the Health and Safety Code or is traveling to or from a place of duty.

(h) Repealed by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 693, Sec. 3(1), eff. September 1, 2007.

(i) Repealed by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 693, Sec. 3(2), eff. September 1, 2007.

(j) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a handgun do not apply to an individual who carries a handgun as a participant in a historical reenactment performed in accordance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.

[C-dub]

I guess I've been up too long today. I'm not following the argument about 46.02. What is it about what I said or implied that seems to go against 46.02?

[jester]

MPA is in 46.02

[G26ster]

I guess I've been up too long today. I'm not following the argument about 46.02. What is it about what I said or implied that seems to go against 46.02?

You got me. Failure to conceal is covered by 46.035 for a CHL. I find nothing in 46.15 that mentions non-applicability of any section of 46.035.

If there is range, then you are covered under 46.15.(b)(3).

Where in 46.15(b)(3) do you see relief from 46.035? It specifically says Section 46.02 doesn't apply, it does not say section 46.035 does not apply. 46.02 is "UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS" by a non-license holder. Under my CHL, I am lawfully carrying, so 46.035 is "UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF A HANDGUN BY A LICENSE HOLDER" which is where intentional failure to conceal is covered.

[Beiruty]

G26ster,

Do you think those who are exempted from 46.02 are superior to those who are carrying under CHL?

Let us see,

A non-CHLer transport (open carry is also legal while going to range) his firearm and open carry at the range and shoot, is exempted under 46.15, no crime, still in the clear.
A CHLer will do same and he is now breaking the law? will he go to jail?

It is evident that a license like a CHL does give its holder more privileges to carry under the CHL law. However, do you think he will lose the right given to non-chler? I do not think so. Common sense and equal protection will prevail.

Let me ask you. How do you disarm and leave your firearm in your car before you enter a 30.06 posted establishment? How about when you arm yourself again? Are you breaking the law by un-concealing in public place, in the parking lot?