Woman Requesting Help with Carry Choices

[RHenriksen]

My personal choice is the M&P 9c. It is fairly light extremely ergonomic, accurate, and has the shortest reach from the backstrap to the trigger of any semi-automatic.

How interesting, I had never heard that before! I'll have to keep that in mind should I find myself helping my wife (w her extremely small hands) w. a purchase.

As always, Excalibur's take is spot-on.

To the OP: if you're interesting in test-driving a pistol that's not available for rent, post here on the forum - someone in Austin who has one might be willing to meet you at the range to let you try it out. I've done that before here in Houston (as the loaner).

[BobCat]

Some time ago a friend called me, asking to meet him and his wife at the range with handguns to try. She had been attacked at work and her left arm cut pretty badly; she hit the intruder on the head with the telephone until he left.

"Conventional wisdom" used to be that a woman should like a .38 revolver. I brought a Ruger Security Six, S&W Model 13, Browning Highpower (9 mm), a Makarov, my CZ75 that I carry, and a 1911 (Springfield MIL-spec) as an afterthought.

Mother and grown daughter dutifully tired each, and at the end of the day both preferred the 1911 over everything else. Who would have guessed? The rounds were light target loads but she was shooting one-handed (left arm still wrapped up) and holding insanely small groups. This is a woman who had some experience with a .22 rifle but none with a handgun. The only handgun her husband has is a Ruger Blackhawk in .30 carbine (it is for hunting, and making lots of noise, not appropriate to carry concealed on one's person unless one is about 6'8" / 300 lb).

Only you can decide what you like. Don't listen to me, don't pay excessive attention to the opinions of others, read corneredcat.com and try every type of pistol / revolver you can get your hands on. One will be, just like the three bears - Just Right.

BTW my wife is about your age, and she has arthritic hands, and she is partial to a S&W Model 60 (in .38 Special) - but shoots it mostly single-action and does not carry off the property. So - I'm not bashing revolvers or trying to sell you a 1911, just saying that there is no accounting for tastes.

Regards,
Andrew

[solaritx]

generally, one should carry the largest caliber that they can make repeat hits with. (a .22 that hits is better than a .44 mag that misses) With the plus P ammo available, a 9mm hits with the force of a .40, a .40 hits with the force of a .45, etc. I suggest NOTHING less than a 9mm. BUT again, carry the largest you can make multiple hits on target with in a "double tap" situation.

The longer the barrel length the easier it is to hit your target. People carry full size weapons all the time. (my wife carry gun is a glock 34 in a fanny pack) There is a general feeling that one needs to carry a small weapon to make it easier to conceal. The barrel and slide are generally in the pants (in the waist band holster) and only the butt needs to be concealed. The butt of the full sized gun is generally about the same as the small one. In a fanny pack (or purse) it's immaterial as the whole thing is concealed.

The heavier the weapon, the less felt recoil as the weight of the weapon "absorbs". Little heavier to carry, but after a short time, it will not even be noticed.

I would also apply the KISS priciple. Keep it simple........With a little training, even with weaker hands or wrists, one can learn the "hold-push" tech to work a slide on a semi-auto. I highly suggest the simple semi-autos like Glock, Springfield XD or S&W M & P. For a heavier weapon, then either a 9mm or .45 1911 weapon is good, but one needs to shoot them to learn muscle memory for slide safety and grip safety. In times of stress, it is easy to "forget" even the basics. One has to learn the muscle memory so that it's second nature to draw and get the weapon into action. Revolvers are excellent weapons, but as you said....the double action was to much for some people.

Garry N

[A-R]

Already a lot of great advice here (as there always is). Here's my $0.02 ...

1. Decide HOW your going to carry first OR decide the gun you like best with the understanding that you may have to change your wardrobe, habits, lifestyle to accomodate the gun. Neither starting point is "wrong" - pick what works best for you and don't let anyone else's strongly worded opinion sway you. Only YOU know what works for you.

2. Consider two different guns to use for two different carrying methods - for instance, a larger easier shooting gun in your purse (or better yet on your person under heavier concealment - like a winter coat) + plus a smaller more easily concealable gun that you can carry on your person easily. Carry both when possible. But at least have the "deep concealment gun" available for situations when it is necessary. Most important: Learn to shoot BOTH guns effectively and practice extensively with both. Don't not shoot the smaller gun just because it's "no fun to shoot". There's a good chance the smaller gun will be what you have with you in the unlikely event you ever need to use a gun in self defense.

3. When considering caliber, remember what has been said here already - the size, shape, action, operation of the GUN can sometimes matter more to overall shooting ease/comfort that just the caliber. Two different guns within the same caliber will shoot drastically differently. Example: a "small" round like a .380 can still produce substantial felt recoil in a small "blowback" operated gun like a Walther PPK or even a more forgiving "recoil" action gun if the gun is very small and light (like a Ruger LCP). Even a fairly large and heavy .380 pistol like the Beretta 84/85 can have sharp recoil because of its blowback action.

For this reason - though I have not shot one yet - I'm intrigued by the newer Walther P380 handgun because is is A) larger than either a PPK or LCP and B) has a softer shooting recoil operation (instead of blowback operation). Might be one worth looking into. Also, for carrying in a purse or other non-holstered carry, it has a manual safety and hammer-fired design. I love striker-fired systems with no manual safety (like a Glock) but worry about them if carrying in any manner other than a well-designed holster that covers the trigger completely. Unless your purse is specifically designed for carry with a built-in holster, I'd be worried about a striker-fired gun carried in a "regular purse".

4. When looking at small snub-nose revolvers, consider an all-steel gun instead of the lighter aluminum and polymer-framed guns. When using regular .38 Special ammunition (instead of + P) in a heavier all-steel gun, felt recoil is significantly reduced. Even get an all-steel .357 Magnum revolver (like a S&W Model 60, 649 etc or a Ruger SP101) and shoot .38 ammo in it. Down the road, if you want to learn to shoot .357 in it you can do so after you've had more practice and grown more accustomed to heavy recoil.

5. Go to a gun show or large gun shop with a huge selection and put every pistol on every table into your hands and remember which guns seemed to "fit your hands" best. Then find those guns to rent at a range or borrow from a friend or fellow forum member. Decide which of the guns that "feels good" also "shoots good" and feels good when shooting. Now you've found your gun.

6. 1911-style guns and Glock-style guns can be much easier to shoot because they lack the difficult long and heavy double-action trigger pull. Regardless of caliber, many women prefer these designs for this reason. Just remember to carry these guns safely, with triggers fully covered in a holster.

[CompVest]

Also, for carrying in a purse or other non-holstered carry, it has a manual safety and hammer-fired design. I love striker-fired systems with no manual safety (like a Glock) but worry about them if carrying in any manner other than a well-designed holster that covers the trigger completely. Unless your purse is specifically designed for carry with a built-in holster, I'd be worried about a striker-fired gun carried in a "regular purse".

My primary way to carry is in my purse chambered. There aren't any more issues with carrying a striker fired gun or any other gun. I don't use a holster purse. I use an off the shelf purse. I dedicate one section of the purse to my gun. I keep the gun in a pocket holster in the purse. This keeps my gun oriented correctly for accessing and keeps the trigger covered. I am not unsafe with this carry method and my gun can be very quickly drawn. It is as safe and fast as an inside the waistband holster.

The only negative to purse carry is that it is easier to pull a purse off someone than it is to pull a belt holster off someone. Considering women's clothing purse carry is quite often the only option.

[HankB]

There has been some good advice already, but I'd like to offer two additional "nuggets" if I may.

1. The way the pistol fits you is critical. When I evaluate a potential addition to my collection, I pick up the pistol with one hand and see if it naturally "feels" good in my grip. I then focus my eyes on a target, close my eyes, and raise the pistol into shooting position until I "think" it's pointed at the target. I then open my eyes and see where the pistol is actually pointed. Do this several times, you'll get the hang of it quick. Some pistols simply don't feel like they're pointing where they actually are. You want one that naturally points where it feels like it's pointing in your own hands.

2. You mentioned arthritis and limited strength; that MAY be a problem with some semiautomatic pistols. There's a particular malfunction caused by what's caused "limp wrist syndrome" . . . if the pistol is not gripped firmly - about like one would grip a hammer - then motion of the frame when you fire may sap some energy from the motion of the slide, leading to a malfunction. I have a first-generation Glock 17 that is very reliable for me, but is very prone to malfunctioning in the hands of my 81-year old mother. On the other hand, I haven't been able to MAKE my 3rd generation Glock 26 malfuntion even by using a two-finger grip and deliberately shooting it with an unlocked wrist. Once you find yourself favoring a particular pistol, I suggest you try to borrow/rent that model and see how it works for you. (Be sure you try shooting it one-handed.)

Good luck and welcome to the CHL club.

[ChattyKat]

Thanks to each of you for taking time to write your advice -- it is a wealth of helpful information! Next Monday after work we can head to the shooting range, and I can check out some of the models for just the price of the ammo (Ladies' Day).

[ChattyKat]

My primary way to carry is in my purse chambered. There aren't any more issues with carrying a striker fired gun or any other gun. I don't use a holster purse. I use an off the shelf purse. I dedicate one section of the purse to my gun. I keep the gun in a pocket holster in the purse. This keeps my gun oriented correctly for accessing and keeps the trigger covered. I am not unsafe with this carry method and my gun can be very quickly drawn. It is as safe and fast as an inside the waistband holster. The only negative to purse carry is that it is easier to pull a purse off someone than it is to pull a belt holster off someone. Considering women's clothing purse carry is quite often the only option.

CompVest, your explanation as to how you carry in your purse answers several questions, such as off-the-shelf purse versus concealment handbag and how you use your purse for carrying (holstered in a dedicated compartment, etc.) Your last sentence is key -- seems like purse carry will be my only practical option. Obviously, I would not be putting my purse down (out of sight) unless necessary -- but what would you do with your purse (while carrying) when you go to a get-together in someone's home? Typically (not carrying) I would set my purse in a secluded corner, but any separation from it may be too risky when carrying. Any thoughts?

[randomoutburst]

CompVest, your explanation as to how you carry in your purse answers several questions, such as off-the-shelf purse versus concealment handbag and how you use your purse for carrying (holstered in a dedicated compartment, etc.) Your last sentence is key -- seems like purse carry will be my only practical option. Obviously, I would not be putting my purse down (out of sight) unless necessary -- but what would you do with your purse (while carrying) when you go to a get-together in someone's home? Typically (not carrying) I would set my purse in a secluded corner, but any separation from it may be too risky when carrying. Any thoughts?

If there are children who are crawling/walking in the house, I would probably leave it in the car. Even a purse put in a well-hidden place can (and often will) be found by children.

One benefit of buying a purse specifically designed for concealed carry: many of them offer a locking mechanism for the gun compartment. This would deter a child or nosy friend from gaining access to the gun should you bring it over to a friend's house.

I personally will not purse carry. I tend to set things down and forget them, and often don't carry more than my phone and wallet anyway. My wallet goes in one pocket and my phone in the other. I've altered my wardrobe selection to accommodate for possible carry scenarios and will also be purchasing a fanny pack for those times I either cannot or choose not to wear carry-friendly clothing. I'm 21, so that's going to look stupid to my friends, but I'd rather look stupid than get caught without my gun when I need it.

I hope you find the gun and carry method that works best for you. This forum is an excellent resource for advice and recommendations...thanks for joining!

[drjoker]

Basically, if you are purse carrying, you may eliminate "mouseguns" because purses are easy to conceal a fair sized gun inside. If so, your choice is narrowed down to 3 basic types of pistols;

1. Glock 26 or any double action (safe action if you are a purist) auto pistol (S&W Sigma, Springfield XD, etc)
The safe action trigger is a much shorter trigger pull than a double action revolver. It has no safety for your arthritic hands to mess with. I suggest you go with this but rent one at the range just to be sure.

2. Kimber 1911 or any compact 1911 style single action auto pistol
You might have trouble with the safety with your arthritic hands. Rent one at the range before you decide.

3. Snub Nosed 38 caliber revolver (S&W, Taurus, Charter Arms, etc)
You already stated that the double action trigger is giving your arthritic hands trouble.

4. "mouseguns"; Kel-Tec P3AT, Ruger LCP, Taurus TCP, etc.
I don't suggest that you go with a mousegun due to your willing to carry a gun in your purse. A purse can hold a bigger gun, so there are no concealability issues that would require a smaller gun. Bigger guns have less recoil and are easier to control for someone petite such as yourself.

Have fun renting guns and trying them out!

If you are forgetful of your purse and are afraid some kids may get your gun, then consider installing a smartgun on a 1911 pistol:
http://www.smartlock.com/smartgun_detail.htm
I have never used one before. I don't know if it is any good or not. If you do get one, let us know how you like it. Basically, it is a gun and you wear a special ring. The gun will not fire unless you are wearing the ring when shooting it.

[ELB]

A further suggestion:

You may wish to try a Browining Hi Power. Original hi-capacity 9mm, yet very svelte and fits small hands very well, which is why I use it -- I have short fingers, and it feels great in my hand. All steel, soaks up 9mm recoil just fine. Yes it has a slide, but I don't think it has a particularly stout spring; the slide is reasonably heavy so it doesn't need the stiff spring of smaller semi-autos. It is very reliable. Operates like a 1911-type pistol; safety on the slide, single action, meant to be cocked and locked. Very flat, also like a 1911, but a bit smaller, and very concealable. I carry mine all the time in a Comp-tac inside-the-waistband holster.

The ones by the original manufacturer, which are sold by Browning in the USA, tend to be pricey, around $800 or more nowadays, but there is an Argentinian clone that is usually very reasonable in price, and by most accounts is a very good pistol as well. There are also other clones as well. Look up the original and the Argentinian version at a gun show and see how you like it.

My wife carries an Airweight Bodyguard snubby in .38. The Bodyguard has a shielded hammer, so it doesn't catch on anything, but you can still thumb cock it. She does not have strong hands, has had some wrist surgery, so she does not like operating the slides of automatics, especially the smaller ones, but she is OK with the double action revolver. She carries it in an off-the-shelf purse, and like mentioned above, has a dedicated compartment for it. I hate off-body carry, but she does not.

Good luck in your quest.

[chartreuse]

This thread has been very timely. My better half had a friend visit this evening and she happened to mention that she was uncomfortable with the SR-9 that her father had given her.

Naturally, I immediately brought out a selection of semi-autos and wheel guns and, having shown clear, encouraged her to dry fire them. She didn't get to experience felt recoil, of course, but as they were my guns I was able to give her a fair idea of how they might compare.

She ended up deciding on a 1911, on account of she had trouble with a DA trigger pull (ruling out the wheelguns), but found it much easier to cock than any of the 9mms that I had her try out. I guess John Moses Browning really did know what he was doing.

What I took away from this is what other folks have already said. You need to try a bunch of guns, to find the one that works for you.

[CompVest]

My primary way to carry is in my purse chambered. There aren't any more issues with carrying a striker fired gun or any other gun. I don't use a holster purse. I use an off the shelf purse. I dedicate one section of the purse to my gun. I keep the gun in a pocket holster in the purse. This keeps my gun oriented correctly for accessing and keeps the trigger covered. I am not unsafe with this carry method and my gun can be very quickly drawn. It is as safe and fast as an inside the waistband holster. The only negative to purse carry is that it is easier to pull a purse off someone than it is to pull a belt holster off someone. Considering women's clothing purse carry is quite often the only option.

CompVest, your explanation as to how you carry in your purse answers several questions, such as off-the-shelf purse versus concealment handbag and how you use your purse for carrying (holstered in a dedicated compartment, etc.) Your last sentence is key -- seems like purse carry will be my only practical option. Obviously, I would not be putting my purse down (out of sight) unless necessary -- but what would you do with your purse (while carrying) when you go to a get-together in someone's home? Typically (not carrying) I would set my purse in a secluded corner, but any separation from it may be too risky when carrying. Any thoughts?

I rarely ever leave my purse anywhere. I keep it hanging across my shoulder pretty much all the time. If I can't keep it with me it's locked in the car. This is my habit whether I have a gun in it or not.

If I know I am going to an activity where I prefer not to have a purse hanging on me I carry on my person.

[Excaliber]

CompVest, your explanation as to how you carry in your purse answers several questions, such as off-the-shelf purse versus concealment handbag and how you use your purse for carrying (holstered in a dedicated compartment, etc.) Your last sentence is key -- seems like purse carry will be my only practical option. Obviously, I would not be putting my purse down (out of sight) unless necessary -- but what would you do with your purse (while carrying) when you go to a get-together in someone's home? Typically (not carrying) I would set my purse in a secluded corner, but any separation from it may be too risky when carrying. Any thoughts?

If there are children who are crawling/walking in the house, I would probably leave it in the car. Even a purse put in a well-hidden place can (and often will) be found by children.

One benefit of buying a purse specifically designed for concealed carry: many of them offer a locking mechanism for the gun compartment. This would deter a child or nosy friend from gaining access to the gun should you bring it over to a friend's house.

I personally will not purse carry. I tend to set things down and forget them, and often don't carry more than my phone and wallet anyway. My wallet goes in one pocket and my phone in the other. I've altered my wardrobe selection to accommodate for possible carry scenarios and will also be purchasing a fanny pack for those times I either cannot or choose not to wear carry-friendly clothing. I'm 21, so that's going to look stupid to my friends, but I'd rather look stupid than get caught without my gun when I need it.

I hope you find the gun and carry method that works best for you. This forum is an excellent resource for advice and recommendations...thanks for joining!

Another advantage of a specially designed concealed carry purse is that the gun can usually be accessed very rapidly before an observer can figure out what you're doing through a velcro closure that doesn't require you to undo zippers, snaps, loops, or other fasteners that might be difficult to manipulate in a hurry.

Here's a simple example.

[Excaliber]

Basically, if you are purse carrying, you may eliminate "mouseguns" because purses are easy to conceal a fair sized gun inside. If so, your choice is narrowed down to 3 basic types of pistols;

1. Glock 26 or any double action (safe action if you are a purist) auto pistol (S&W Sigma, Springfield XD, etc)
The safe action trigger is a much shorter trigger pull than a double action revolver. It has no safety for your arthritic hands to mess with. I suggest you go with this but rent one at the range just to be sure.

2. Kimber 1911 or any compact 1911 style single action auto pistol
You might have trouble with the safety with your arthritic hands. Rent one at the range before you decide.

3. Snub Nosed 38 caliber revolver (S&W, Taurus, Charter Arms, etc)
You already stated that the double action trigger is giving your arthritic hands trouble.

4. "mouseguns"; Kel-Tec P3AT, Ruger LCP, Taurus TCP, etc.
I don't suggest that you go with a mousegun due to your willing to carry a gun in your purse. A purse can hold a bigger gun, so there are no concealability issues that would require a smaller gun. Bigger guns have less recoil and are easier to control for someone petite such as yourself.

Have fun renting guns and trying them out!

If you are forgetful of your purse and are afraid some kids may get your gun, then consider installing a smartgun on a 1911 pistol:
http://www.smartlock.com/smartgun_detail.htm
I have never used one before. I don't know if it is any good or not. If you do get one, let us know how you like it. Basically, it is a gun and you wear a special ring. The gun will not fire unless you are wearing the ring when shooting it.

I'm not a fan of installing aftermarket gimmicks that add to the complexity of the engineered design. One obvious reason is that a gun equipped with a Smartlock can't be fired with your support hand, which may be the only hand you have available, without a second ring.

It's far better to pick a design and carry method that meets your needs without modification.