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Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:15 am
by Excaliber
Skiprr wrote:Excaliber wrote:I would not suggest going face to face with the subject. I recommend recontacting the PD and asking to speak to a detective. Provide him with the information you uncovered after the original report was written.
In addition, I'd recommend taking a cold, hard, objective look at your property and house. The vast majority of home burglaries are crimes of opportunity, not home invasions. Discounting drug dealers and "known-bad associate" situations, most home invasions target business owners or others who might bring large amounts of cash to their homes.
To help remove yourself as a target of opportunity you'll want to try to put yourself into the mindset of a burglar, and realistically evaluate your home as a target. Perform your evaluation at early morning, midday, and at night. Start from across the street and a few houses away, in both directions; taking photos can help. Look for any and everything that might make your home look attractive or unattractive to a potential burglar.
You said you had no internal or external lights on at the time the event occurred. That might be a great place to start. If a home looks unoccupied, it goes to the top of a burglar's list. Knocking on a door is a (relatively) safe and easy way to ascertain if anybody's home. I'd strongly suggest exterior lighting, particularly motion-activated lighting near your doors. Motion-sensing lighting can do a better, and much cheaper, job of deterring a break-in than can a video camera.
Also, having a light on a timer in a room away from your bedroom but with a prominent window exposure to the street is a sound idea. Set it to turn on and off frequently during the night, at intervals that vary from day to day to keep the pattern looking irregular to anyone who might, say, drive through the neighborhood a few nights in a row. Timers like that go for under $20, and modern CFL lightbulbs can keep the energy usage to a minimum.
Do you have sides of your house that are very dark at night? A side, for example, where there might be one or two windows, but no exterior lighting, and the side of the house is in shadow from the streetlights? That can be an attractive potential access point for a burglar, and is another prime spot for motion-activated lighting. A fenced backyard with no lock on the gate can be appealing because it screens the offender's activities. Likewise, the arrangement of trees and shrubs in your lawn might provide concealment while accessing a window.
Do you have lawn signs and window stickers declaring that the home has a monitored burglar alarm? Are the lawn signs clearly visible to cars passing in front of your house in both directions? Even if you don't have a monitored alarm (as good an idea as it is to have one) you can still obtain signs that make it look as if you do.
You know the old joke about the two guys in a camp at night when a grizzly comes wandering in? One guy stops to put on his shoes, and the other guy asks, "You think you can outrun a bear?" To which the reply: "No, I only need to outrun you."
Point being that you want your home to appear to be the least-likely target on your block. You want it to look like it's occupied. You want it to look like it has an active alarm. If you have an alarm, use it. You want no dark spots at night without motion-sensitive lighting. You want the gate to your backyard locked. You want a padlock on your exterior breaker box. Put the lock-bar on your garage door once you're inside for the day. If you have an attached garage, always lock the adjoining door, day or night. Have an intercom to the front door if you can afford it. Offer no exterior concealment for windows. Don't leave your curtains open during the day so that passersby can look in and decide if you're affluent enough to target for burglary. And the list goes on.
Just like situational awareness is your front-line safety tool when outside your home, for your house it’s the grounds and perimeter that are its front-line safety. The handgun and 870 are a definite, but a little work on the exterior can prevent your home from ever being considered a potential target by a bad guy. Don't make the bear want to chase you.

Skiprr has many good suggestions here, and his point is well taken. However, most of them are applicable to deterring burglary of unoccupied homes, which usually occur during the day or early evening. Indications that folks are home cause most of these guys to move along to find an empty one.
When someone attempts to open the front door at 11:45PM as in this case, he knows it's very likely that the home is occupied and it's more likely than not he's planning to conduct a home invasion that involves confrontation with occupants at some point. A lighted entryway that would make his actions visible from the street may have some deterrent value, but additional indicators of occupancy won't help much at that point - he's figuring folks are home and can help him find what he wants.
These folks are exceedingly dangerous and the Rem 870 the OP selected as a greeting tool was a good choice.
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:19 am
by Excaliber
lonewolf wrote:Believe it or not, even that evergreen shrubbery with those sharp pointy leaves is an effective deterrent around windows. They grow thick and most bad guys don't like them. Sometimes keeping it simple is most effective.......a dog, thorny leaves, patio light on, etc.....
All true, but in homes with energy efficient double pane windows, the difficulty, danger, and noise involved in a window entry drives burglars and home invaders to prefer doors as entry points as a general rule.
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:21 am
by Excaliber
Hoi Polloi wrote:While I completely agree that this doesn't add up, him wanting to rob you because your house looked vacant doesn't really make sense, either. He knew you were home because he heard you yelling and he still tried the door. I wonder if he was high.
What does add up is he was planning to hit a more than likely occupied house where people were already asleep and he could confront them before they could react effectively.
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:23 am
by Tass
Another possibility (if it's a younger person) could it be that he thought he was at the home of a girl he knew from school/bar/FB and said he would stop by if he was in the area?
(Just felt the need to play Devil's Advocate )
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:32 am
by Excaliber
Tass wrote:Another possibility (if it's a younger person) could it be that he thought he was at the home of a girl he knew from school/bar/FB and said he would stop by if he was in the area?
(Just felt the need to play Devil's Advocate )
Uh huh.
That's why he stood off to the side so he wouldn't be readily observable through the door and tried the doorknob but beat a retreat at the sound of the slide rack from an 870.
If he wanted to know if his girlfriend was up, he'd text her or call her cell phone.
This particular devil would need a whole lot more advocacy to come up with an innocent explanation for his actions.
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:51 am
by El_Tortuga
Pizza delivery can be used to scout for oppurtunity. Gives them an oppurtunity to peak inside and see what you have. A guy I knew busted the pizza dude break-in by chance (he was smoking in the garage when the hands came under the garage door to pry it up). Chased them, and recognized one of the thugs. They also called the home number to check if anyone was home (since they had it from previous delivery), but he missed it because he was in the garage.
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:11 am
by Excaliber
El_Tortuga wrote:Pizza delivery can be used to scout for oppurtunity. Gives them an oppurtunity to peak inside and see what you have. A guy I knew busted the pizza dude break-in by chance (he was smoking in the garage when the hands came under the garage door to pry it up). Chased them, and recognized one of the thugs. They also called the home number to check if anyone was home (since they had it from previous delivery), but he missed it because he was in the garage.
Sometimes just plain good luck beats anything you could've thought of beforehand.
And sometimes it works the other way too.
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:43 pm
by TXlaw1
Excaliber wrote: These folks are exceedingly dangerous and the Rem 870 the OP selected as a greeting tool was a good choice.

What about loading it with that new Winchester 12 ga load with 3 buckshot and a rifled slug? Or what's your suggestion for ammo in 870 for home defense? For greeting the BG's at the front door?

Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:34 am
by Beiruty
I think the Pizza man wanted to sexually assault a young victim. If he was lost, he would call the pizza place. Anyone trying my door at midnight is not up to no good. I will be armed and waiting inside with 911 online. If the break in do happen, hot molten mushrooms are flyin!
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:29 am
by Skiprr
Excaliber wrote:Skiprr has many good suggestions here, and his point is well taken. However, most of them are applicable to deterring burglary of unoccupied homes, which usually occur during the day or early evening. Indications that folks are home cause most of these guys to move along to find an empty one.
Precisely. If this perp has been delivering pizza in the neighborhood for some time, he's had the opportunity to surveil the homes on the block.
No exterior lights after a few nighttime runs equals a home that is possibly unoccupied.
The OP said he shouted and racked his 870. We can't know if these were heard by the perp who was presumably standing well away from the door.
The described position of the perp wasn't consistent with a doorknob attempt. And nothing more than a doorknob attempt doesn't speak of a dedicated VCA.
A home invasion by a single VCA is exceedingly rare these days. Yep, crack-head idiots do exist, but they mostly stumble into trouble, not plan it.
Home invasions are typically planned in advance and executed by multiple VCAs.
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:13 am
by cbucher
I would also look at public records for for crimes in your neighborhood. See it it matches any other situations that have taken place. My wife checks from time to tie just to see what might be happening around us.
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:55 am
by Excaliber
Skiprr wrote:Excaliber wrote:Skiprr has many good suggestions here, and his point is well taken. However, most of them are applicable to deterring burglary of unoccupied homes, which usually occur during the day or early evening. Indications that folks are home cause most of these guys to move along to find an empty one.
Precisely. If this perp has been delivering pizza in the neighborhood for some time, he's had the opportunity to surveil the homes on the block.
No exterior lights after a few nighttime runs equals a home that is possibly unoccupied.
The OP said he shouted and racked his 870. We can't know if these were heard by the perp who was presumably standing well away from the door.
The described position of the perp wasn't consistent with a doorknob attempt. And nothing more than a doorknob attempt doesn't speak of a dedicated VCA.
A home invasion by a single VCA is exceedingly rare these days. Yep, crack-head idiots do exist, but they mostly stumble into trouble, not plan it.
Home invasions are typically planned in advance and executed by multiple VCAs.
Well, shouts and the sound of my 870 racking could most assuredly be easily heard outside my front door.
Folks who aren't planning to enter don't generally turn other folks' doorknobs. Ask yourself: Do you?
Standing to the side is a viable tactic for getting an unaware person to open the door wide when they don't see anyone right in front of it. This is the setup for the perp to charge in.
Home invasion gangs do operate in multiples, but there are solo operators out there.
We'll never know for sure on this one because the OP thwarted whatever was going on, but in my view he had a very close call with a very bad actor.
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:32 am
by couzin
Good grief - now the bad guys are taking jobs as late night pizza delivery people so they can case homes while out making deliveries and they have legitimate cover if they get stopped??!!
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:31 pm
by dicion
couzin wrote:Good grief - now the bad guys are taking jobs as late night pizza delivery people so they can case homes while out making deliveries and they have legitimate cover if they get stopped??!!
People using a real/fake job as a cover for casing/robbing/burglarizing people?
You Act Like This Is New
google 'distraction robbery' and 'distraction burglary' for more
Re: Late night delivery
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:30 am
by Mhoward
I didn't get the chance to go down to the pizza place and talk to the manager but I am going to go to the PD to speak to a detective as yall suggested.
From what the manager told me, "he knows that neighborhood very well, he has been working here for years", I don't have any doubt in my mind now that he was up to something.
What really spooked me was thinking about how I am usually gone all day and my wife is always home during the day alone and how I have been parking my truck in the garage after I return home from work and my wife's car usually stays outside (she doesn't like getting it in and out of the garage.) Maybe this guy thought she was home alone since only her car was out front and he did intend to rape/rob her but was confused when I started shouting through the door.
As I remember he was around 30, I caught a glimpse of his face when he got back in his SUV.
Anyways, last night my wife and I took a walk around the block and when we started getting closer to the house I looked it over to see what a burglar would see. There was nothing that caught my eye, our house is very plain in the front, all of the good stuff is in the back yard. We have started parking my wife's car in the garage and leaving my truck outside and I replaced the bulb on the driveway motion light. We also put some "Secured By ADT" stickers up alongside the doors and on the garage door. I would preferred to put up "Protected by 2nd Amendment".
As for leaving the front porch light on I have never been real big on this since I can hardly see anything out of the door's peephole with it on. I know that it makes a good deterrent if we leave it on but if something does happen I don't want to have to turn the light off to look through the peephole, since they would know I am at the door.
Thanks for all of the info yall provided about how to prevent this from happening again. I get use to our quiet neighborhood and let down my guard sometimes, I fully intend to keep looking at ways to improve the security of my house since I will be traveling alot soon and my wife will be home alone with our son.