BoogieDad wrote:I don't recommend taking out a dog. I've done it a couple of times when I was younger. It's all good until you wake up with it in the morning
Cheap date, huh?
Yep,
Bad idea!
More than one person has had to gnaw their own arm off....in order to get away.
Seriously, don't shoot a dog unless you absolutely have to.
Most dogs that come running up to you are not looking to harm you (there are exceptions). A good walking stick/cane and pepper spray will deter all but the most determined dogs.
I have never shot a dog and don't want to but I'm realistic. You can tell by the way a dog acts if he means you harm, most of the time anyway. If a Lab or a Setter come running up to you and a Pit or a Chow come running up to you, there is a real good chance that the latter two have different intentions .
Don't bet too much on your pepper spray functioning, much less stopping the dog. There's not a good way to make sure it will spray except spraying it, and that might itself cause a leak or loss of pressure for future use. A while back I decided to check one that I had been carrying. No spray - no nothing. And are you certain the spray will be effective on that dog, in that wind, etc?
I still carry a small pepper spray can when I'm out with the dog, but I rotate them fairly often. It's an option, along with a couple of others.
Also, don't bet too much on being able to read the dog's intent. Some dogs are very "professional" about their work, and may not give the warnings you happen to be looking for. Others can seem quite friendly, then change attitude with no notice at all.
The sooner I get behind, the more time I have to catch up.
Please use pepper spray. I love dogs and they generally really mean no harm. If the pepper spray doesn't work, THEN shoot the dog. If you don't believe that pepper spray before bullets is a good idea, then I invite you to google for "Harold Fish". He sure wishes that he had pepper spray! Stay safe out there.
I was inches away from a Doberman when he attacked his owner.
They were playing on the floor as they always did. They'd had the dog for decades. This time, he went from being playful to snapped with absolutely no transition. He bit into his owner's face and would not let go. That's actually what saved him because if the dog had continued biting, the owner would have been mauled. Instead, he required stitches and healed OK. I furiously scrambled over furniture to go for help and the dog was put down.
I am a huge animal welfare promoter. I respect animals and their power. There's no way I would face even a medium-sized dog that was intent on destruction and would hesitate to shoot. They can cause permanent mutilation in seconds and in aggressive or large breeds, worse. Children die from dog maulings. I wouldn't take that chance.
Pray as though everything depended on God. Work as though everything depended on you. -St. Augustine We are reformers in Spring and Summer; in Autumn and Winter we stand by the old; reformers in the morning, conservers at night. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
I've been hand to hand...er...hand to teeth with a couple of good sized dogs and came out okay (they didn't). I have no problem shooting a dog, cat or tweety bird should one act aggressively, charge or attack. I love animals but dogs, with few exceptions are not people and I will not hesitate. I also do not carry 20# of equipment every time I go out just to be prepared for any eventuality.
I'm not trying to be snippy nor condescending, and I have tried negotiation with irresponsible neighbors, ultimatums to animal control and police involvement with varying effect. Call me what you will, but if man or beast comes at me and I cannot turn them verbally; if I think they could cause me, my family or an animal trying to hurt my animals, I am going to shoot to stop the threat, no hesitation no over thinking.
I Thess 5:21
Disclaimer: IANAL, IANYL, IDNPOOTV, IDNSIAHIE and IANROFL
"There is no situation so bad that you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield, NASA ISS Astronaut
Everybody's approach to this has merit, but it is still a hard thing to defend against. I am something of a dog person. I have always owned large guard breeds. A loose dog of almost any breed will run full speed to meet a strange dog coming into their territory. You can have a hard time reading the body language quickly enough to judge if they are coming for a fight or a howdy do even if you know dogs. Killing a friendly dog who was never going to hurt anyone isn't something anyone wants to have to do, and some owners would see you as a monster deserving of every vengeance possible. I have a german shepherd that would fly to meet any dog or kid with her hackles up in excitement and then act like a silly puppy wanting to play. How would you know that? You wouldn't. No one but me likely would. I do not ever let her run loose for fear she would scare someone into harming her, and I get really peeved at owners who do not keep their dogs up. When I walk my dogs on leash, I really hate to see a strange dog headed my way.
Relying on the gun to defend yourself means you are assuming you see the dog in time to draw and aim, that there is no one in the line of fire behind the dog, and that your dog or kid are not in too close proximity. If a man can run and stab you from 21 feet away before you can draw and fire, how far do you think you would have to see that dog coming? My GSD can run so fast she is a blur. Would you shoot it before it actually left the front yard of it's home you are walking past?
I am not saying don't consider shooting as an option, but a cattle prod, pole, or large can of pepper spray, etc are wise first tactics. I personally like the cattle prod. I have seen huge 2000 pound bulls who move quite willingly to get away from one of those. The problem is no defense will work every time in every situation.
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The problem with pepper spray as I see it is that I don't think you can assess and react to a dog attack quickly enough first to spray (accurately) and then if that doesn't work, reassess and respond with your handgun (accurately).
And all of this while fur and blood is flying in a rolling, roiling mass of a couple hundred pounds if they are good sized dogs.
As a previous poster said, his GSD can move pretty fast, so can mine (see my avatar, he's the best dog I've ever had) and so can someone else's.
I've thought about how I would respond at length and know that it would be situation dependent. I don't carry pepper spray.
There is an abandoned railroad bed a block from my house where everyone walks there dogs off leash, including me.
We all know each other and the dogs know each other and everyone gets along.
Except one. There's always one.
He just doesn't like GSD's says the owner. He goes after another one in the neighborhood, but no other type of dog.
The last time we crossed paths, I didn't see him soon enough and he had circled around behind us and attacked.
My dog was still on leash as we were just entering the bed from the path to it.
With my adrenaline pumping, I grabbed him by the back of the neck and the skin on his back and threw him on his side and pinned him down until the owner could run over. He is about a 75 pound Australian Shepard. I had my G27 on my hip, but pulling it did not even enter my mind as it all was so fast and unexpected. I just reacted. I am lucky I didn't need a couple hundred stitches. But his focus was on my dog, not me.
I had thought about this situation before and how I might handle it and this was not one of the responses envisioned.
There is no way that I could have used pepper spray and then my handgun, at least not in this situation as it unfolded, even if I carried it.
What I certainly would have done if the dog did not give up when I had him pinned was to shoot him.
Period.
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
- Noah Webster
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drjoker wrote:Please use pepper spray. I love dogs and they generally really mean no harm. If the pepper spray doesn't work, THEN shoot the dog. If you don't believe that pepper spray before bullets is a good idea, then I invite you to google for "Harold Fish". He sure wishes that he had pepper spray! Stay safe out there.
Well since you mention Harold Fish, also google Grant Kuenzli, the man routinely violent man whose dogs Fish fired a warning shot at before finally having to shoot Kuenzli himself in self-defense. I wouldn't have known about this case except that the reversal of Fish's conviction was posted here on this forum just a couple of days ago.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
TexasGal wrote:Everybody's approach to this has merit, but it is still a hard thing to defend against. I am something of a dog person. I have always owned large guard breeds. A loose dog of almost any breed will run full speed to meet a strange dog coming into their territory. You can have a hard time reading the body language quickly enough to judge if they are coming for a fight or a howdy do even if you know dogs. Killing a friendly dog who was never going to hurt anyone isn't something anyone wants to have to do, and some owners would see you as a monster deserving of every vengeance possible. I have a german shepherd that would fly to meet any dog or kid with her hackles up in excitement and then act like a silly puppy wanting to play. How would you know that? You wouldn't. No one but me likely would. I do not ever let her run loose for fear she would scare someone into harming her, and I get really peeved at owners who do not keep their dogs up. When I walk my dogs on leash, I really hate to see a strange dog headed my way.
Relying on the gun to defend yourself means you are assuming you see the dog in time to draw and aim, that there is no one in the line of fire behind the dog, and that your dog or kid are not in too close proximity. If a man can run and stab you from 21 feet away before you can draw and fire, how far do you think you would have to see that dog coming? My GSD can run so fast she is a blur. Would you shoot it before it actually left the front yard of it's home you are walking past?
I am not saying don't consider shooting as an option, but a cattle prod, pole, or large can of pepper spray, etc are wise first tactics. I personally like the cattle prod. I have seen huge 2000 pound bulls who move quite willingly to get away from one of those. The problem is no defense will work every time in every situation.
We've had pizza delivery people run back to their cars at the sight of my Great Dane, and often see people scooping up their little dogs and heading inside when we're out walking him, even though he's on a leash, so I have the same fears --someone will mistake this gentle dog who loves people for a threat and kill him, ripping my heart out. I'm also concerned about people who don't have their dogs under control when these dogs approach mine, because he doesn't love other animals like he does people. Once while walking him two dogs knocked the screen out of a second story window and jumped out to come after him. My wife and I tried to keep them separated and while it was tough going we did manage to keep them apart --though we were fortunate that these dogs were more in play mode than attack mode. I love dogs. I am loathe to kill one, and would probably risk injury to be absolutely certain it was necessary (and I've been injured before trying to prevent one dog from killing another).
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Unfortunately I have had to take out about a dozen dogs that over the last 2 years as they devastated my chicken and guinea flock. They came from a neighbor (I live in the boonies-so the neighbor is about 300 yards down the road) who allows his dogs to just run and breed. He always had from 8 to 12 dogs running around.
The last straw was when I saw 3 of them hanging off my young bull. Of course all these kills were with a 12 gauge with 00 buck.
I had spoken to them prior to shooting several times with no response. I even had a county deputy speak to them and he came back and told me that I'd probably have to do whatever I needed (as long as they were on my property). It gets easy when you watch them tormenting the birds before they run off with them or just chew them to death (they don't even eat them). Anyway, I havent' had to shoot any in about the last 6 months.
I took the CHL test on Sept 18th and sent in the packet a coupla days later. I always hated to have to run back to the barn to get the shotgun.
Good to be here.....
I won't hesitate to take out a medium to large dog if he became aggressive. Kinda like a drunk driver, you never know who down the road he'll take out. But if you're intent on NOT shooting a dog, I would suggest wasp spray. VERY long reach and dogs HATE it.
drjoker wrote:Please use pepper spray. I love dogs and they generally really mean no harm. If the pepper spray doesn't work, THEN shoot the dog. If you don't believe that pepper spray before bullets is a good idea, then I invite you to google for "Harold Fish". He sure wishes that he had pepper spray! Stay safe out there.
It probably is no difference to him. If he pepper sprays on the dogs, the crazy man still attacks him, and he still has to shoot the crazy man who doesn't stop attcking when Fish yells at him to stop and points a gun to show he really wants crazy man to stop. He can't pepper spray crazy man if he used all of it on the dogs.
Keep dogs on leash or fenced and your dogs will be safe from CHL and safe from hit by cars.
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