CHL or not??

[Crossfire]

I learned so much more from my Utah class than my Texas class. I even had to shoot in my Utah class. My Utah class covered all of the Texas laws….in great detail. In fact, it was basically the Texas renewal class.

If you learned all about Texas law in your Utah class, then the instructor wasn't teaching what he was supposed to teach.

Actually, the Utah BCI ENCOURAGES non-resident instructors to include instruction on the laws of the state they teach in. There is a minimum training requirement, but additional topics can also be included.

[safety1]

No sir, not a Utah CFP instructor
I think the real issue at hand gets over looked concerning Utah CFP’s. Somebody show me some
real statics that say Utah non-resident CFP holders in Texas are more likely to break some penal code
regarding Texas CHL law. The fact of the matter here is that this is all about money…less money for Texas CHL instructors, because people have found a cheaper way. And now that Austin will be looking
into this matter, you can bet your bottom dollar they will not leave any money on the table….the law will be changed.
I love the great state of Texas, born and raised. I just don’t see any material fact that proves by allowing Utah non-resident CFP’s in Texas is hurting anything but the pocketbooks of some Texas CHL instructors.

[WildBill]

I learned so much more from my Utah class than my Texas class. I even had to shoot in my Utah class. My Utah class covered all of the Texas laws….in great detail. In fact, it was basically the Texas renewal class.

If you learned all about Texas law in your Utah class, then the instructor wasn't teaching what he was supposed to teach.

Actually, the Utah BCI ENCOURAGES non-resident instructors to include instruction on the laws of the state they teach in. There is a minimum training requirement, but additional topics can also be included.

I must be confused. When I took my Utah class, I thought that the instructor said that he had to have his teaching plan approved by Utah BCI and he could not add to it without getting permission.

Since you are an instructor and I am not, I assume that you are correct. Unless the class is longer than the Utah minimum, I don't see how they could adequately cover both Utah and Texas laws. I know in my Utah class we didn't.

[RPB]

As Monty Python says:
And now for something completely different:

I mean not from a legal or educational standpoint ... I still prefer to support my local economy.

Would I get licenses from Utah and other states in addition to my Texas CHL, I might.
Might be nice in Court, if I ever landed in one, to say that I'm licensed in numerous States.
Can't have "too much" edjucashun/credentials.
Would I get one from Callyphornya or D.C. if available? Prolly not, I ain't sendin' my dollas there for nuttin'.

[JJVP]

Lots of interesting advise and im thnakful for it.
The first being the legislature comment. If legislature has issues with anyones choice of license, then that just shows the negativity that they promote. I for one dont agree with the state charging for self defense.
The second being LE officers not know the Utah license is accepted by Texas residents. Well, I have experianced this issue on several different subjects and I agree that could create a problem.
Third is the money. Sue I can come up with the money, but now days I simply try to stretch it out as far as I can. Im no different than anyone else, I have bills piled up and im simply trying to use my money as effictivly as I can.
All of the advise is very good and i'll consider those comment. Except for the Legislature issue. Legislature is elected by Texans and should represent the people who put them in office.
I did look at the Utah licenses state acceptance last night. I found New Mexico doesnt accept it , but I can open carry in New Mexico without a license. I prefer open carry anyway. I just wished Texas had the same.
Im still a little confused by the school zones comment. Texas has a castle doctrine and considers your vehicle to be an extension of your home. Its legal to conceal carry in your vehicle in Texas, so I really dont see what the issue is there.

Thats why you need to stay and read this forum. You will learn about all the little nuances of Federal and State law that boil down to only valid CHL carriers can carry in a school parking-lot. The MPA or Castle Doctrine does not apply there as I understand it.

Actually the School GFZ relates to 1000' from the school, nothing to do with parking lots. So, technically anyone that carries under MPA and does not have a CHL violates federal school GFZ law by just driving by the school, unless the firearm is unloaded and locked

Title 18 U.S.C §922(q) The Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995 States:

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.


(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

(iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

Definitions

Title 18 U.S.C. §921(25) The term “school zone” means— (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school. (26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.

[Crossfire]

I learned so much more from my Utah class than my Texas class. I even had to shoot in my Utah class. My Utah class covered all of the Texas laws….in great detail. In fact, it was basically the Texas renewal class.

If you learned all about Texas law in your Utah class, then the instructor wasn't teaching what he was supposed to teach.

Actually, the Utah BCI ENCOURAGES non-resident instructors to include instruction on the laws of the state they teach in. There is a minimum training requirement, but additional topics can also be included.

I must be confused. When I took my Utah class, I thought that the instructor said that he had to have his teaching plan approved by Utah BCI and he could not add to it without getting permission.

Since you are an instructor and I am not, I assume that you are correct. Unless the class is longer than the Utah minimum, I don't see how they could adequately cover both Utah and Texas laws. I know in my Utah class we didn't.

Did you take your class prior to 2010? Up until then, BCI wanted to approve the curriculum, and once approved, you were not supposed to deviate from it. Sometime in 2010, they decided that, as long as you met the minimum requirements, you could add to the class, but not teach less than the minimum.

Our Utah classes are, indeed, longer than the minimum at 6 hours, and I still can't cover everything I would like. I strongly encourage all our Utah students to come for the full Texas class and then they have the option to go with Texas, or Utah, or both.

[WildBill]

Did you take your class prior to 2010? Up until then, BCI wanted to approve the curriculum, and once approved, you were not supposed to deviate from it. Sometime in 2010, they decided that, as long as you met the minimum requirements, you could add to the class, but not teach less than the minimum.

That explains it. I took my class in 2008. Thanks for clarifying that.

[Dragonfighter]

As Monty Python says:
And now for something completely different:

I mean not from a legal or educational standpoint ... I still prefer to support my local economy.

Would I get licenses from Utah and other states in addition to my Texas CHL, I might.
Might be nice in Court, if I ever landed in one, to say that I'm licensed in numerous States.
Can't have "too much" edjucashun/credentials.
Would I get one from Callyphornya or D.C. if available? Prolly not, I ain't sendin' my dollas there for nuttin'.

Very eloquent and succinct post.

[hangfour]

I say this a lot (probably everyone is getting bored hearing it by now) as it is so important to me .... What we spend our money on is what we vote for to exist in the world. I'm personally happy to vote for Texas's procedure and carry laws. What ever you decide ... to carry is good.

[MR Redneck]

If and when I decide to take a class. I wont be for legal reasons other than getting a license.
I will not depend on what somebody else teaches about the law. I have a desire to learn to laws from reading the penal codes myself.
I have to admit, I get pretty upset reading the laws that we have on the books. I cant believe we sat by and allowd such nonsence to happen.
I am most dependant on what I read and what I determine Vs. what someone else teaches. After all, i'll be "ME" that has to answer for what " I" do, not the instructor.
Skill's,???? I'll take anyone up on a challenge anytime..Like most firearms owners, I enjoy shooting my stuff, probably a little too much..

The Laws, and gun skill is something I think we should all accomplish ourselfs. Thats part of being responsible. If someone wants to learn they can get some help just about anywhere. I'll bet they can find a shooting instructor if they want to.
Safety and laws, are not the states respnosibility to teach. It our personel choice.
With that said, the worst safety conduct I ever seen came from a Cop! I also have seen several CHL holders who I thought were just too dumb and shouldnt own a gun. People do stupid stuff, so I think we should all educate ourselfs to have good skills and respect the weapon.
Here is the biggest problem I have with the State CHL mess. I know several people who like to provoke people and present themselfs in a negative manner. These people all have CHL's and I attempted to report them to the DPS in Austin.
The words I have to use to describe that experiance would not be polite to put on this forum. It seems that the state thinks CHL people are superior to others. I disagree because I know better.
I have one reason for getting the licese, and money! Money, money, money!! The state wants your money no matter what you do. They charge you for your right to keep and bare arm. They charge people who make a choice to defend themselfs and they dang sure charge you if you do it without a license.
I have one goal and its to get a license so I can "legally" carry a gun..

[WildBill]

[safety1]

[MR Redneck]

Well dont be bashful guy's. Ya think im wrong by wanting to learn the firearms and defense law for myself? No matter what anyone tells me, im still going to look the stuff up and apply it to the written law. I sure dont want anyone's missunderstanding of the law to get me thrown in jail, or worse.

[zaroffhunts]

That's a good idea. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. (Except, apparently, for false arrest.)
DPS has the laws online. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf

When you carry in the real world, you're the one who will face any consequences. Your instructor (even if he or she is a Texas instructor) probably won't cover your legal expenses if you're arrested in Texas while following his or her legal advice. If you're convicted, he or she definitely won't serve your jail/prison sentence in your place.

[texasjeep44]

If and when I decide to take a class. I wont be for legal reasons other than getting a license.
I will not depend on what somebody else teaches about the law. I have a desire to learn to laws from reading the penal codes myself.
I have to admit, I get pretty upset reading the laws that we have on the books. I cant believe we sat by and allowd such nonsence to happen.
I am most dependant on what I read and what I determine Vs. what someone else teaches. After all, i'll be "ME" that has to answer for what " I" do, not the instructor.
Skill's,???? I'll take anyone up on a challenge anytime..Like most firearms owners, I enjoy shooting my stuff, probably a little too much..

The Laws, and gun skill is something I think we should all accomplish ourselfs. Thats part of being responsible. If someone wants to learn they can get some help just about anywhere. I'll bet they can find a shooting instructor if they want to.
Safety and laws, are not the states respnosibility to teach. It our personel choice.
With that said, the worst safety conduct I ever seen came from a Cop! I also have seen several CHL holders who I thought were just too dumb and shouldnt own a gun. People do stupid stuff, so I think we should all educate ourselfs to have good skills and respect the weapon.
Here is the biggest problem I have with the State CHL mess. I know several people who like to provoke people and present themselfs in a negative manner. These people all have CHL's and I attempted to report them to the DPS in Austin.
The words I have to use to describe that experiance would not be polite to put on this forum. It seems that the state thinks CHL people are superior to others. I disagree because I know better.
I have one reason for getting the licese, and money! Money, money, money!! The state wants your money no matter what you do. They charge you for your right to keep and bare arm. They charge people who make a choice to defend themselfs and they dang sure charge you if you do it without a license.
I have one goal and its to get a license so I can "legally" carry a gun..

Is there one of those troll smiley thingys.

If you think the State has no responsibility to teach people about gun safety and laws then you need to go read through the statutes because it is required teaching in a Texas CHL class.

If you have already made up your mind about it, why the heck would you come to a TEXAS CHL FORUM and ask for our opinions on whether you should get a Texas CHL.

Go to the Utah CHL forum and ask them.