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"Entitlement" means something that people are entitled to, as opposed to a hand-out. Social Security is much more of an entitlement than Welfare, Food Stamps or any of the other programs that are erroneously referred to as "entitlements".

You guys have it all wrong!

It's not "Social Security", it's "So-So Security"!

The socialist security payments are not based on what you paid in, so it's no different than any other government handout in practice.

Ameer wrote:The socialist security payments are not based on what you paid in, so it's no different than any other government handout in practice.

Actually, I believe it's based on how much you paid in over the last 10 (?) quarters, or something to that effect. It is not a flat payment for everybody.

Ameer wrote:The socialist security payments are not based on what you paid in, so it's no different than any other government handout in practice.

Is that a fact? So, how many years have you contributed to your "socialist security payments" as an American citizen?

From the horse's mouth:

Base Years

A worker's (wage earner) base years for computing Social Security benefits are the years after 1950 up to the year of entitlement to retirement or disability insurance benefits. For a survivor's claim, the base years include the year of the worker's death. See Retirement Insurance Benefits (RIB).

Evidence (Proofs)

"Proofs." The documents you must submit to support a factor of entitlement or payment amount. The people in your Social Security office can explain what evidence is required to establish entitlement and help you to get it. For more information see Evidence Required to Establish Right to Benefits.

You may not think it's entitlement. The government does.

I have noticed that shift to the word entitlement when referring to Social Security.

Social Security was set up like a retirement plan with vesting requirements to qualify and your retirement payments based somewhat on what you put in. However, it always had the word "tax" at the end of the word Social Security.

I am counting on Social Security to pay my local property taxes, otherwise I will have to sell my house or never be able to retire. How crazy is that.

So I really hope they decide to fulfill the promises they have continuously made to me over the last forty-five years.

Since they have been so nice each year to send me a statement showing how much I have put in over the years, I have been reluctant to get out the finance books and see what the net present value of that amount would be today, but not even counting the employer portion, I assume it would be staggering even with an investment rate as little as 3%.

Thank you for starting this thread, I wondered if I was the only one who was going "hey wait just a cotton picking minute".

The way I look at it personally, being just a few years away from retirement, is that I have been forced to pay the tax my entire life with the promise that when I retired I would receive something back. The government owes me that. If they renege on that promise, however, I will not be the least bit surprised. Angry as a raging fire, but not the least bit surprised.

IMHO, SSI, Social Security Insurance and SSDI, Social Security Disability Insurance are insurance for which I paid premiums.
I'm entitled to receive my insurance benefits at a point which is defined by a triggering event listed in the policy/contract.
Just like any privately run insurance. Otherwise, it'd be breach of contract.
I know they'd claim Sovereign Immunity ... doubtful one could file suit for anticipatory breach.

.....with some ocean front property in Arizona and a bridge to nowhere.......

Katygunnut stated: "Entitlement" means something that people are entitled to, as opposed to a hand-out"

Quite right!

Over time, the Orwellian use of the word "Entitlement" has become synonymous with government "hand out". Social Security is not an entitlement as it's commonly known, i.e., money given by the government to the undeserving through welfare, food stamps, etc., but yes, Social Security payments are truly an entitlement when this word is applied properly.

I'm alarmed by the use of the word "Entitlement", again as it's commonly now known, when it's applied to Social Security.

Social Security is NOT a "hand out".

I'm attempting, rather clumsily, to make this point.

Speculation?

Abraham wrote:Katygunnut stated: "Entitlement" means something that people are entitled to, as opposed to a hand-out"

Quite right!

Over time, the Orwellian use of the word "Entitlement" has become synonymous with government "hand out". Social Security is not an entitlement as it's commonly known, i.e., money given by the government to the undeserving through welfare, food stamps, etc., but yes, Social Security payments are truly an entitlement when this word is applied properly.

I'm alarmed by the use of the word "Entitlement", again as it's commonly now known, when it's applied to Social Security.

Social Security is NOT a "hand out".

I'm attempting, rather clumsily, to make this point.

Speculation?

You are absolutely correct! There are those of us of a certain age who have paid long and much into what we were promised would be there for us to supplement our savings upon retirement. It is my money and I expect it back with interest.

One example of an entitlement or "hand out", as it's currently defined by the media, would be the automatic salary increase that congress receives every year. Social Security increases are tied to some mythical formula from which congressional and government employee salary increases are exempt.

Social Security is an entitlement. Dont confuse the definition of entitlement with entitlement mentality.

Paying into social security you are entitled to a return theoritically in a perfect world. Welfare is an entitlement menatily meaning people began to believe they are entitled to something while not contributing.

Social Security is an entitlement. Welfare is not an entitlement but many of those receiving it have an entitlement mentality.

Problem with Social Security is that the money has never been a designated fund, it is a tax, and the government borrows from it to pay for other expenses. So there is no money in the a Social Security "fund". Which is why current workers pay for current recipients.

Social Security was nothing more than an income tax always has been.

When the government goes broke, which we are, they do not have the money to pay back the entitlement, so they either print it causing inflation making your dollar worth less, or they borrow it and end up paying massive amounts of interest, or they raise taxes.

Currently they are printing it, borrowing it, and trying to raise taxes.

In the end if they dont get this together the government becomes insolvent and the currency inflates and we all end up going completely insane because our way of life and the system we know has been destroyed.

Notice that as you pay more into Social Security, the tax you pay increases much faster than the computed maximum benefit you'll receive.

Some years back, there was a regular column in Fortune magazine called Keeping Up. At that time the author did some calculations on the value of Social Security.

He assumed someone was retiring then at age 65, after having worked and paid into the system at the maximum rate their entire adult life. He computed the "lump sum" they'd have if their contributions (matched by the employer, of course) had been invested at 3%.

At that time, the resulting lump sum would buy an annuity that paid about 75% more than the maximum SS benefit.

Great deal, eh? And consider the sheer scale . . . the whole scheme makes Bernie Madoff look like a rank amateur swindler.

Now there's talk about punishing those who've scrimped & saved for their own retirements by reducing SS benefits for these folks.

If they deny/means test for SS benefits that people have paid for all their lives . . . the Tea Party may morph into the Guillotine Party.

texas1234 wrote:Social Security is an entitlement. Dont confuse the definition of entitlement with entitlement mentality.

They're not mutually exclusive. Remember when we were in the depths of the recession, with no inflation, and the AARP was demanding more handouts. People with jobs were getting laid off or taking pay cuts to keep their jobs. Small business owners were making a lot less money. Some businesses were losing money because of the economy.

Meanwhile, the hAARPies insisted they should get more money for not working, even though they did nothing to earn a raise. That's pure entitlement mentality!