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Liquor is liquor and beer and wine are beer and wine according to TABC...and me.

Not quite true. Here are some definitions from the TABC site.

Ale/Malt Liquor – malt beverages with MORE than 4% alcohol by weight (a type of liquor)
Beer – malt beverages with more than a half percent alcohol by volume, but NOT more than 4% alcohol by weight (5% alcohol by volume).
Distilled Spirits – alcoholic beverages made through the distilling process. Includes rum, tequila, vodka, whiskey, gin, brandy, etc.
Liquor – alcoholic beverages with MORE than 4% alcohol by weight (5% alcohol by volume). The term “liquor” includes ale/malt liquor, wine and distilled spirits.
Malt Beverages – alcoholic beverages made by brewing grains. Malt beverages are broken down into two categories: beer or ale/malt liquor, depending on the alcohol content of the final product.
Mixed Beverage - an alcoholic beverage served for consumption on the premises where it is sold by the holder of a mixed beverage or private club permit. It could be beer, malt liquor/ale, wine or spirits.
Wine – alcoholic beverages made by fermenting juice from fruit, grapes, berries or honey

Fortunately, my grocery store does not even sell beer. However, we're getting way ahead of ourselves.

3dfxMM wrote:

Liquor is liquor and beer and wine are beer and wine according to TABC...and me.

Not quite true. Here are some definitions from the TABC site.

Ale/Malt Liquor – malt beverages with MORE than 4% alcohol by weight (a type of liquor)
Beer – malt beverages with more than a half percent alcohol by volume, but NOT more than 4% alcohol by weight (5% alcohol by volume).
Distilled Spirits – alcoholic beverages made through the distilling process. Includes rum, tequila, vodka, whiskey, gin, brandy, etc.
Liquor – alcoholic beverages with MORE than 4% alcohol by weight (5% alcohol by volume). The term “liquor” includes ale/malt liquor, wine and distilled spirits.
Malt Beverages – alcoholic beverages made by brewing grains. Malt beverages are broken down into two categories: beer or ale/malt liquor, depending on the alcohol content of the final product.
Mixed Beverage - an alcoholic beverage served for consumption on the premises where it is sold by the holder of a mixed beverage or private club permit. It could be beer, malt liquor/ale, wine or spirits.
Wine – alcoholic beverages made by fermenting juice from fruit, grapes, berries or honey

How come Wal-Mart and Krogers in Palestine; for instance, don't sell liquor when both sell beer and wine? Elsewhere in Palestine, the liquor stores do sell liquor and wine and beer, ale, etc.

There is a difference, legally and in the minds of many who will vote for legalizing the sale of beer and wine but will oppose the sale of (hard) liquor forever. BTW, did you know that Texas is constitutionally a "dry" state?

Back on topic, we are fortunate to have our various Texas signs as opposed to the "gunbuster" sign used by many states.

Maybe instead of reducing the penalty the requirement for the posting of the sign needs to be more explicit. Change it to something like “Must be at all the entrance(s) and highly visible while approaching the entrance(s) to enter.

OK -- the point is that ANY location that sells anything alcoholic MUST (according to TX law) post the "blue" unlicensed firearms sign. This includes liquor stores, grocery stores, restaurants, convenience stores, etc. If you didn't see the sign at your grocery store (and they sell beer) then either you missed it, or they are not in compliance.

You can tell by looking at their "liquor" license. It will either say "sign=blue" indicating the "unlicensed possession" sign must be posted, or "sign=red" indicating the 51% sign is to be posted.

sjfcontrol wrote:OK -- the point is that ANY location that sells anything alcoholic MUST (according to TX law) post the "blue" unlicensed firearms sign. This includes liquor stores, grocery stores, restaurants, convenience stores, etc. If you didn't see the sign at your grocery store (and they sell beer) then either you missed it, or they are not in compliance.

You can tell by looking at their "liquor" license. It will either say "sign=blue" indicating the "unlicensed possession" sign must be posted, or "sign=red" indicating the 51% sign is to be posted.

Whatever...I've passed the age of honky-tonks, saloons, Hooters and gentlemen's clubs, etc. I'm not sweating the grocery stores and adult beverage purveyors. Signage is their problem...not mine.

PS:

WAR EAGLE!

Quote: "I hadn't thought about those. There are a bunch of those already up. Every restaurant and Walmart. About the only place I can think of that doesn't have any sign prohibiting guns I frequent is the grocery store."

Think about this one: If OC did happen to become legally acceptable effective on September 1 and there was a "man wearing a gun" call to 911 and/or complaint to your grocery store manager, the odds are extremely high that your grocery store manager would be getting himself educated very promptly and you would be seeing new signage at the front door of your grocery store by October 1. Along with thousands of other locations in Texas where there is currently not signage impacting CHL holders due to "out of sight, out of mind".

Texas makes the penalty worse for trespassing with a "deadly weapon".
That's why we needed 30.06 signs, so you wouldn't face a year in jail class A misdemeaner for not seeing a little sign.

Other states don't do that, just simple trespass. I think VA is max $25 fine.

Greybeard wrote:Quote: "I hadn't thought about those. There are a bunch of those already up. Every restaurant and Walmart. About the only place I can think of that doesn't have any sign prohibiting guns I frequent is the grocery store."

Think about this one: If OC did happen to become legally acceptable effective on September 1 and there was a "man wearing a gun" call to 911 and/or complaint to your grocery store manager, the odds are extremely high that your grocery store manager would be getting himself educated very promptly and you would be seeing new signage at the front door of your grocery store by October 1. Along with thousands of other locations in Texas where there is currently not signage impacting CHL holders due to "out of sight, out of mind".

It's all possible, of course. Now, my store is not very big and we are there so often that we know most of the employees and the manager. Another customer could call MWAG, but all that is likely to happen is the store manager might ask me not to do it anymore. It is less likely that he would put up a sign or he could just leave it be and tell anyone who asks that it is legal and the police have already checked me out. IDK!

I also know a few of the local LEOs and before I ever OC, if I decide to do that, I would already know what the response from my local PD will be. If they are hostile to the idea then I might not. Until I'm comfortable with it in my own neighborhood I don't see me doing it anywhere else. It is all still one great big IF at this point.

Oldgringo wrote:

3dfxMM wrote:

Liquor is liquor and beer and wine are beer and wine according to TABC...and me.

Not quite true. Here are some definitions from the TABC site.

Ale/Malt Liquor – malt beverages with MORE than 4% alcohol by weight (a type of liquor)
Beer – malt beverages with more than a half percent alcohol by volume, but NOT more than 4% alcohol by weight (5% alcohol by volume).
Distilled Spirits – alcoholic beverages made through the distilling process. Includes rum, tequila, vodka, whiskey, gin, brandy, etc.
Liquor – alcoholic beverages with MORE than 4% alcohol by weight (5% alcohol by volume). The term “liquor” includes ale/malt liquor, wine and distilled spirits.
Malt Beverages – alcoholic beverages made by brewing grains. Malt beverages are broken down into two categories: beer or ale/malt liquor, depending on the alcohol content of the final product.
Mixed Beverage - an alcoholic beverage served for consumption on the premises where it is sold by the holder of a mixed beverage or private club permit. It could be beer, malt liquor/ale, wine or spirits.
Wine – alcoholic beverages made by fermenting juice from fruit, grapes, berries or honey

How come Wal-Mart and Krogers in Palestine; for instance, don't sell liquor when both sell beer and wine? Elsewhere in Palestine, the liquor stores do sell liquor and wine and beer, ale, etc.

There is a difference, legally and in the minds of many who will vote for legalizing the sale of beer and wine but will oppose the sale of (hard) liquor forever. BTW, did you know that Texas is constitutionally a "dry" state?

Back on topic, we are fortunate to have our various Texas signs as opposed to the "gunbuster" sign used by many states.

The reason most grocery stores in Texas don't get a license to sell liquor (distilled spirits) is that then they would be limited by law to liquor store hours, which in Texas are 10AM-9PM Mon.-Sat. and must be closed on State Holidays. So Wal-Mart which sells a LOT more than just liquor is never going to want to match those restrictions when they can sell beer and wine anyway. Also, some localities prohibit (distilled) liquor sales. I've seen a few SPEC's Liquor stores that carry a wide variety of grocery items to be almost comparable to a grocery store, but they have to keep liquor store hours. Tom Thumb and HEB ain't going to do that.

ScottDLS wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

3dfxMM wrote:

Liquor is liquor and beer and wine are beer and wine according to TABC...and me.

Not quite true. Here are some definitions from the TABC site.

Ale/Malt Liquor – malt beverages with MORE than 4% alcohol by weight (a type of liquor)
Beer – malt beverages with more than a half percent alcohol by volume, but NOT more than 4% alcohol by weight (5% alcohol by volume).
Distilled Spirits – alcoholic beverages made through the distilling process. Includes rum, tequila, vodka, whiskey, gin, brandy, etc.
Liquor – alcoholic beverages with MORE than 4% alcohol by weight (5% alcohol by volume). The term “liquor” includes ale/malt liquor, wine and distilled spirits.
Malt Beverages – alcoholic beverages made by brewing grains. Malt beverages are broken down into two categories: beer or ale/malt liquor, depending on the alcohol content of the final product.
Mixed Beverage - an alcoholic beverage served for consumption on the premises where it is sold by the holder of a mixed beverage or private club permit. It could be beer, malt liquor/ale, wine or spirits.
Wine – alcoholic beverages made by fermenting juice from fruit, grapes, berries or honey

How come Wal-Mart and Krogers in Palestine; for instance, don't sell liquor when both sell beer and wine? Elsewhere in Palestine, the liquor stores do sell liquor and wine and beer, ale, etc.

There is a difference, legally and in the minds of many who will vote for legalizing the sale of beer and wine but will oppose the sale of (hard) liquor forever. BTW, did you know that Texas is constitutionally a "dry" state?

Back on topic, we are fortunate to have our various Texas signs as opposed to the "gunbuster" sign used by many states.

The reason most grocery stores in Texas don't get a license to sell liquor (distilled spirits) is that then they would be limited by law to liquor store hours, which in Texas are 10AM-9PM Mon.-Sat. and must be closed on State Holidays. So Wal-Mart which sells a LOT more than just liquor is never going to want to match those restrictions when they can sell beer and wine anyway. Also, some localities prohibit (distilled) liquor sales. I've seen a few SPEC's Liquor stores that carry a wide variety of grocery items to be almost comparable to a grocery store, but they have to keep liquor store hours. Tom Thumb and HEB ain't going to do that.

Wouldn't one of those cages like Sam's and Costco have around their cigarette areas meet the legal requirements of being able to close off the liquor during certain hours? I'd expect them to close off a room which could be locked if the law stayed the same. The bigger issue is the voters who keep the cities dry. That's quickly being voted out across the state, though. Most people are still voting against allowing hard liquor, though.

Hoi Polloi wrote:Wouldn't one of those cages like Sam's and Costco have around their cigarette areas meet the legal requirements of being able to close off the liquor during certain hours? I'd expect them to close off a room which could be locked if the law stayed the same.

One might have thought so. I remember, 30 or so years ago, driving through Holland. The Sunday trading laws were such that even convenience stores attached to gas stations had heavy steel shutters over certain shelves, to prevent you getting hold of a bar of soap, or other non-perishable items.

Of course, this is a bit silly, in some respects. Any beer drinker who's ever forgotten to put their watch back in the fall and gone grocery shopping at what they think is 12:30 on a Sunday afternoon has had the experience of the checkout girl saying "I can't sell you that until after noon." Surely that's enough of a barrier?

Keith B wrote:

C-dub wrote:

MeMelYup wrote:This is why CC and OC should be completly seperate. Possibly OC would not require a license and have the same restrictions as CC had before year 2000, and to opt out all a store needs would be the sign for unlicensed handguns.

Ouch! I hadn't thought about those. There are a bunch of those already up. Every restaurant and Walmart. About the only place I can think of that doesn't have any sign prohibiting guns I frequent is the grocery store.

And if your grocery store sells liquor at all, they are supposed to have one posted.

Not quite right. A liquor store is not required to have a 51 sign because that is only for consumption on the premises. It is quite legal to carry in a liquor store unless they have posted a 30.06 sign. The same with ANY place that sells carry out alcohol.

The unlicensed sign is valid at any establishment that sells alcohol in any venue.

OldCurlyWolf wrote: It is quite legal to carry in a liquor store unless they have posted a 30.06 sign. The same with ANY place that sells carry out alcohol

Almost. Some, not all, but some winery shops (like in Fredericksburg for example) who do sell for carry out are flagged by the TABC as 51% locations (sign = red on the license) and are thus off limits. They are licensed this way even though in reality virtually all of their income comes from sales for off-premises consumption. IIRC, Srothstein posted about this oddity sometime back.

ETA, here is a thread about the "exception" to the rule:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18507" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oldgringo wrote:

Keith B wrote:

C-dub wrote:

MeMelYup wrote:This is why CC and OC should be completly seperate. Possibly OC would not require a license and have the same restrictions as CC had before year 2000, and to opt out all a store needs would be the sign for unlicensed handguns.

Ouch! I hadn't thought about those. There are a bunch of those already up. Every restaurant and Walmart. About the only place I can think of that doesn't have any sign prohibiting guns I frequent is the grocery store.

And if your grocery store sells liquor at all, they are supposed to have one posted.

I believe it is illegal for a grocery store to sell liquor in Texas. My liquor store, OTOH, has the same "no unlicensed guns" sign that Wal-Mart and Sam's has.

OK, beer and wine. I meant to say alcohol, not liqour as in a distilled product vs. fermented.