TexasCHLforum.com

Keith B wrote:There are cities and other government entities that may not like CHL, but they can't prohibit it.

Right.

There are no government buildings in Texas that are not improperly posted 30.06. **cough City of Houston cough**.

No one has ever posted that they are worried about being the test case where government buildings are improperly posted and they carry past the improper sign.

Right again.

Sorry I am so cynical. I trust no government completely.

Anygunanywhere

baldeagle wrote:Basically you voted that you want open carry no matter how badly it damages the rights of gun owners.

I voted yes and your post was one of the reasons. I do not see a private business posting 30.06 as infringing on your rights. They have the right to control their property.

I think if more places posted legal 30.06 signs it would actually help the gun rights movement. For one thing, it would help everyone here understand who the opposition is and isn't. It would help stop the question of whether or not the improper posting is just an appeasement of the gun-haters and not intended to stop us. If enough businesses posted properly, more of us would stop going there anyway and the power of the dollar would convince them to remove the posting. Or, I could be wrong and it would prove exactly how small a minority we really are and how little we matter.

Of course, I disagree with the premise of the question, but I answered based on the actual question.

anygunanywhere wrote:

Keith B wrote:There are cities and other government entities that may not like CHL, but they can't prohibit it.

Right.

There are no government buildings in Texas that are not improperly posted 30.06. **cough City of Houston cough**.

No one has ever posted that they are worried about being the test case where government buildings are improperly posted and they carry past the improper sign.

Right again.

Sorry I am so cynical. I trust no government completely.

Anygunanywhere

Sure there are improperly posted government buildings, but it is not illegal to carry in there. There are also non-valid 30.06 signs that don't meet the legal requirements posted on private businesses. Still, they are unenforceable. Can you be arrested and have to fight it by passing one of these? Sure, but that can happen at any time for anything.

The whole crux of this issue is that any proposed open carry legislation will be a highly visible when it is introduced. With all of the publicity it will create in the media, it will bring even more exposure to carrying, even concealed, and will in turn get the folks who have not thought about concealed carry being in their store making a decision to go ahead and post, whether open carry passes or not. And, I can 99.9% guarantee that there is NO way that they will require a separate sign to prohibit open carry in a location, so IF it passes, then there will for SURE be those that might have been fine not realizing that people were carrying in their business, that suddenly decide they have to post to prevent open carry, so now even concealed carriers are prohibited from entering. This is something I personally don't want.

Are we 100% sure they will post more signs? No, but I can tell you that once it is out in the open, the exposure and visible gun out there will get a lot of the anti's up in arms about it. If you don't think that will happen, just look at the whole stink raised by a restaurant owner in Tennessee when they just wanted to pass restaurant carry. The guy was able to rally a ton of restaurant owners and get them to post signs. http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2009 ... -bars-law/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I also believe it was instrumental in getting a Judge to overturn the restaurant carry law and have it reversed. http://www.ammoland.com/2009/11/29/tenn ... itutional/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, IMO it is gonna get a lot of press and a lot of opposition from cities and private businesses, and if it passes, there will be plenty of more signs posted.

Shhh. Be very very quite. I think the threat of losing business is our biggest weapon against businesses that post 30.06 signs. I'm not sure they would really be affected by the loss of our $$$ given that we are only what, 1-1.5% of the population. I think that there are many businesses that would accept the 1-1.5% loss for the illusion of safety.

We will never know for certain until it happens.

I want OC to happen.

Once it happens we can deal with the reaction.

Never ending battle for truth and justice.

Anygunanywhere

Keith B wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:How many think that the parking lot bill will solve the parking lot issue everywhere?

Anygunanywhere

The parking lot bill WILL solve the issue as it will be illegal to prohibit someone from having a gun in their car if they can legally posses it. If an employer fires you over the issue, then they can be sued for wrongful termination.

So they will just fire you for some other reason, just as the employer that fired me for breaking my finger in an on the job accident and reporting it to workman's comp did. Try proving it.

As always, I'm out by myself....

I still believe -- as contrary as this idea is to modern society -- that a private landowner/renter has the final say in what happens on his/her property. So, I expect them to inform me when they do not want me to carry in any way on their property, and I will bow to their wishes. Whether I stay or leave depends on the circumstances; I don't see things in black and white, as many here already know -- real life isn't that way.

To tell the truth, I just learned we come from a state that has always been open carry. Interestingly, most of my life I've been around OC and just never paid any attention!

As the Houston Police have learned (thank you!), CC'ers are not bad people. If we continue to act according to the nature of the people here, I doubt we'll have too much trouble. Just a thought: I really wonder more about who else might take advantage of OC.

On the other hand, I've noted more and more lately when it would have been far more convenient to have been able for me to un-concealed carry. Would I decide which way to carry? Well, that's not the question here.

anygunanywhere wrote:I am the lone vote yes so far.

I don't think that that many more places will post 30.06 if OC passes.

Flame away. Nomex, kevlar, proximity suit on.

Heh heh. I like this.

Anygunanywhere

I'm with you. A few might try it. They'll change their minds fast enough.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:If passing open-carry would result in many businesses posting 30.06 signs prohibiting both open-carry and concealed-carry, would you support an open-carry bill?


The purpose of this poll is to determine priorities, nothing else. If you cannot accept the premise upon which this poll is drafted, then please don't answer.

Chas.

Depends. Are we talking about a knee-jerk uptick that dies off after people realize it's no big deal, or more of a long-term thing? Also, what do you mean by "many"? Some people might consider a hundred to be "many", but I doubt I'd notice if a hundred businesses in Plano & the surrounding cities posted signs.

Dave2 wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:If passing open-carry would result in many businesses posting 30.06 signs prohibiting both open-carry and concealed-carry, would you support an open-carry bill?


The purpose of this poll is to determine priorities, nothing else. If you cannot accept the premise upon which this poll is drafted, then please don't answer.

Chas.

Depends. Are we talking about a knee-jerk uptick that dies off after people realize it's no big deal, or more of a long-term thing? Also, what do you mean by "many"? Some people might consider a hundred to be "many", but I doubt I'd notice if a hundred businesses in Plano & the surrounding cities posted signs.

You would if it was the hundred businesses you frequent the most, i.e. WalMart, Collin Creek Mall, your grocery store chain, home Depot/Lowes, etc.

Dave2 wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:If passing open-carry would result in many businesses posting 30.06 signs prohibiting both open-carry and concealed-carry, would you support an open-carry bill?


The purpose of this poll is to determine priorities, nothing else. If you cannot accept the premise upon which this poll is drafted, then please don't answer.

Chas.

Depends. Are we talking about a knee-jerk uptick that dies off after people realize it's no big deal, or more of a long-term thing? Also, what do you mean by "many"? Some people might consider a hundred to be "many", but I doubt I'd notice if a hundred businesses in Plano & the surrounding cities posted signs.

If "no-gun" signs go up, they won't come down. 1.8% of the buying public isn't going to force a business to take a sign down. It didn't happen in Texas in 1995 - 1997 and it won't happen if signs go up if OC passes. The only reason the epidemic of "no gun" signs stopped n 1997 is because HB2909 went into effect on Sept. 1, 1997 and a small sign or decal was no longer effective. They had to post the big, ugly sign.

As for the number of businesses posted, I will not accept the loss of any locations so a handful of people can carry openly. But I don't think it will be a few. We can bet it will be most if not all major chain stores and malls posting (ex. Sears, Home Depot, grocery stores, etc.). That will not be a minor impact; it will be a major one. And if my wife has to stop carrying her handgun when she shops at a mall or a grocery, I'm going to be one very bitter person!

Chas.

anygunanywhere wrote:

C-dub wrote:

Keith B wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:I am the lone vote yes so far.

I don't think that that many more places will post 30.06 if OC passes.

Flame away. Nomex, kevlar, proximity suit on.

Heh heh. I like this.

Anygunanywhere

That wasn't the question. It was IF it would cause them to post more 30.06 signs, would you want it? So, IMO your vote was not on the question.

Exactly. Charles even states that to vote, one must agree to the condition that it would increase 30.06 postings. We understand your position that it would not, but that isn't the question. If you cannot accept that possibility for this poll then you should not have voted.

I freely admitted that some postings will increase, but in my admission I also stated that I believe they will not be rampant as is the belief held here by others.

There will always be repercussions to changes in firearms laws. Not everyone plays by the rules. How many government properties are posted improperly? How many governments are going to post because of OC if it passes?

How many think that the parking lot bill will solve the parking lot issue everywhere?

How many think that colleges will welcome CHLers with open arms if campus carry is passed?

Anygunanywhere

The university I attend won't know I am carrying.....it'll be quite well concealed. Of course, I haven't seen them paying much attention to anything around the campus other than cell phones, Ipods and the like. Bizarre.........

I suppose they could "profile" me. Let's see...middle aged, graying hair and beard......ARMED!!!!

I just don't worry about it. I will say that most of the desks are the type you enter from the left and slide in, so I'm glad I carry cross draw. That way the weapon isn't going to bang on the desk every time I sit down or stand up......If any one asks about that "bulge", I'll just tell them its a portable defibrillator. I'm old enough for them to believe it.......

I voted YES. Is anyone surprised?

Rights are rights, regardless of what a sign says.

jsimmons wrote:I voted YES. Is anyone surprised?

Rights are rights, regardless of what a sign says.

Nope, I'm not surprised at all.

Chas.

I look at the question this way, "Who would you rather have infringing upon your 2A rights? The state of Texas, or private business owners?" If I accept the premise that more businesses will post signs, then I must accept that my rights will be restricted either way - either by the State outlawing OC, or by the People posting signs. Given that option, I much prefer to take the power away from the State and return it to We The People. If The People choose to exercise that power in a way that I don't like, well that's the price of liberty. If a private company wants to outlaw OC/CC - that's their property, so it's their choice. Likewise if they wish to allow OC/CC - they should have that option, too. We talk so much about the property owner's right to ban CC, but what about their right to allow OC? The State needs to get out of the way and let the People do as We wish.

Plus, I can always find somewhere else to shop. Even if the number of signs increases, I don't think it will increase so much that the anti's will have a monopoly. If Wal-Mart posts, I'll go to Target; if Target posts, I'll go to Tom Thumb. I can't imagine that every grocery store everywhere will be posted - I'll find the one that isn't.