Re: AR Ammo difference
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:46 pm
I was out this weekend with a Smith and Wesson M&P 15 MOE carbine, 16 BBL 1:9 5.56 NATO to try out some different ammo to see what worked best in my gun. (Santa came early...maybe some pix when the UPS man gets here with the aimpont... 
.)
Shooting from a concrete bench with a heavy front rest and rear sandbag and using a Simmons 6-18 scope on QD A.R.M.S. mounts (borrowed from my M1A1) since I am mediocre at best with Iron sights....Had to use a Pro mag QD flatop riser to get the scope up off the handguard and BUIS. The gun is new and has a stock trigger and is not worn in and smooth as my 1980 CAR15.....
This was by no means a scientific test and due to budget restraints, used mostly internet commando 3 shot groups ILO 10 shot averages.
60 degrees, sunny with a light wind around 10 MPH and swirling down range (The benchrest guys had the flags out)
I had:(all .223 ammo)
Wolf (Black box 2003 vintage 55gr JHP)
Black hills blue box remanufactured 68gr Heavy Match.
Hornady TAP 60gr (Black box)
Hornady TAP 75gr (Black Box)
Also shot a little of the benchrest guy's .223 match stuff with 55 gr HPBT sierra bullets that they drive tacks with.
The Wolf ammo was about 13 cents a round when I bought it....ah, the good old days. The Hornady costs around a $1.00 a round including tax and the Black Hills about 60 cents a pop.
Zero was 50 yds, which should be almost 2 inches high at 100 and 0.0 at 200 yards. 50 meter and 200 meter are the battle sight zero the military uses so the zero might vary a little.
AT 50/100 yds:
Wolf 55grn: 2" groups. (This stuff goes bang every time, feeds well, is really dirty, but it consistantly sprays about the point of aim) Similar results have been documented on AR15.com by shooters much better than me. At 100 yds I get about a 5 inch spray and at 200 yards it is 8 to 12 inches. I therefore use this ammo for can shooting and short range tactical drills. I understand it is underloaded and not suitable for home defense....YMMV.
Hornady TAP 60 grain, gave me the tightest groups of the batch. 3/4" at 50 and 1 1/4" at 100. Something I don't understand however was this is a hot 3100 FPS load, but consistantly printed lower (below same point of aim), 1/2" at 50 and 1" at 100, than the other heavy bullets going 200-300 fps slower. (Info from box not chrono) I would think this would be an excellent HD round for most AR15s.
Hornady TAP 75 gr, gave me 1" at 50 and 1 1/2 at 100. All shots printed 1 1/2 to 2' 1/2 high at 100 and dead zero at 200. As I only had a 20rd box, once I saw the 200 yard results I put the box away. (Might get a hunt next week and this will be the load)
The Black hills 68gr just plain shoots good. I might just use this as my go to round for the end of the world supply.
5/8" at 50, 1 1/4 at 100 and these were point of aim point of impact groups. At 200 yards I fired an 8 shot string at about a 5 second interval and, for me anyway, shot a nice 4 inch group if I include the flyer with a tighter 3 inch cluster 1 inch high.
The benchrest handload 55gr grouped tightly at 1" at 50 but shot low and left 2 inches..with two different shooters...I have seen these same rounds cover a dime at 100 yards from a bolt gun so take from this what you wish.
I want to get some decent 55gr (Not Wolf) to shoot and see how they would fair in the 1:9. I'll assume pretty good from the results I have had so far.
As my plan for the gun was to be my go to home defense carbine and have no plan to shoot much past my front door, I was pleasantly surprised at the results from my day at the range. Any of the US MFG quality ammo will be just fine to hunt with out to 200 assuming type of game and expansion needs are concidered. After the day, I feel the need to pick up a few boxes of the tap 75 and Black hills and head out to the 300 yard mark and shoot some balloons blown up to 8 inches or so.
For a Carbine, with a collapsible stock, no good cheek weld, stock trigger and a borrowed scope stacked on 2 sets of QD mounts....I am very happy. The new Aimpoint that is on the UPS truck for today only has a 2 MOA dot but I am curious to see how I do with it. My old CAR 15 with the old Aimpoint Mark III used to shoot about 8 inches at 200 with PMC ammo so this one might do better with the match ammo.
My conclusion is the gun shoots better than I can, my patience and eyes not being what they used to be..... For the tack driver guys out there my results might be horrifying, but I think for most people, good quality ammo will provide solid results. Anyone trying to put 10 shots in a 1 inch hole at 200 yards with a carbine (not some 24 inch bull barrel gun with a $1200 scope in a good rest) will be disappointed....not saying it can't be done but certainly not by most people and that will not be done with Mil Spec standard issue ammo.
The main thing about the day is I had a great time with my son and buddies out at the range. I suddenly have the jones for a new 20 inch bull upper with a 1:8 twist, a new stock with adjustable cheek piece and the biggest scope I can afford
Maybe for next Christmas!
Be safe, good shooting and have a merry Christmas all!
.)Shooting from a concrete bench with a heavy front rest and rear sandbag and using a Simmons 6-18 scope on QD A.R.M.S. mounts (borrowed from my M1A1) since I am mediocre at best with Iron sights....Had to use a Pro mag QD flatop riser to get the scope up off the handguard and BUIS. The gun is new and has a stock trigger and is not worn in and smooth as my 1980 CAR15.....
This was by no means a scientific test and due to budget restraints, used mostly internet commando 3 shot groups ILO 10 shot averages.
60 degrees, sunny with a light wind around 10 MPH and swirling down range (The benchrest guys had the flags out)
I had:(all .223 ammo)
Wolf (Black box 2003 vintage 55gr JHP)
Black hills blue box remanufactured 68gr Heavy Match.
Hornady TAP 60gr (Black box)
Hornady TAP 75gr (Black Box)
Also shot a little of the benchrest guy's .223 match stuff with 55 gr HPBT sierra bullets that they drive tacks with.
The Wolf ammo was about 13 cents a round when I bought it....ah, the good old days. The Hornady costs around a $1.00 a round including tax and the Black Hills about 60 cents a pop.
Zero was 50 yds, which should be almost 2 inches high at 100 and 0.0 at 200 yards. 50 meter and 200 meter are the battle sight zero the military uses so the zero might vary a little.
AT 50/100 yds:
Wolf 55grn: 2" groups. (This stuff goes bang every time, feeds well, is really dirty, but it consistantly sprays about the point of aim) Similar results have been documented on AR15.com by shooters much better than me. At 100 yds I get about a 5 inch spray and at 200 yards it is 8 to 12 inches. I therefore use this ammo for can shooting and short range tactical drills. I understand it is underloaded and not suitable for home defense....YMMV.
Hornady TAP 60 grain, gave me the tightest groups of the batch. 3/4" at 50 and 1 1/4" at 100. Something I don't understand however was this is a hot 3100 FPS load, but consistantly printed lower (below same point of aim), 1/2" at 50 and 1" at 100, than the other heavy bullets going 200-300 fps slower. (Info from box not chrono) I would think this would be an excellent HD round for most AR15s.
Hornady TAP 75 gr, gave me 1" at 50 and 1 1/2 at 100. All shots printed 1 1/2 to 2' 1/2 high at 100 and dead zero at 200. As I only had a 20rd box, once I saw the 200 yard results I put the box away. (Might get a hunt next week and this will be the load)
The Black hills 68gr just plain shoots good. I might just use this as my go to round for the end of the world supply.
5/8" at 50, 1 1/4 at 100 and these were point of aim point of impact groups. At 200 yards I fired an 8 shot string at about a 5 second interval and, for me anyway, shot a nice 4 inch group if I include the flyer with a tighter 3 inch cluster 1 inch high.
The benchrest handload 55gr grouped tightly at 1" at 50 but shot low and left 2 inches..with two different shooters...I have seen these same rounds cover a dime at 100 yards from a bolt gun so take from this what you wish.
I want to get some decent 55gr (Not Wolf) to shoot and see how they would fair in the 1:9. I'll assume pretty good from the results I have had so far.
As my plan for the gun was to be my go to home defense carbine and have no plan to shoot much past my front door, I was pleasantly surprised at the results from my day at the range. Any of the US MFG quality ammo will be just fine to hunt with out to 200 assuming type of game and expansion needs are concidered. After the day, I feel the need to pick up a few boxes of the tap 75 and Black hills and head out to the 300 yard mark and shoot some balloons blown up to 8 inches or so.
For a Carbine, with a collapsible stock, no good cheek weld, stock trigger and a borrowed scope stacked on 2 sets of QD mounts....I am very happy. The new Aimpoint that is on the UPS truck for today only has a 2 MOA dot but I am curious to see how I do with it. My old CAR 15 with the old Aimpoint Mark III used to shoot about 8 inches at 200 with PMC ammo so this one might do better with the match ammo.
My conclusion is the gun shoots better than I can, my patience and eyes not being what they used to be..... For the tack driver guys out there my results might be horrifying, but I think for most people, good quality ammo will provide solid results. Anyone trying to put 10 shots in a 1 inch hole at 200 yards with a carbine (not some 24 inch bull barrel gun with a $1200 scope in a good rest) will be disappointed....not saying it can't be done but certainly not by most people and that will not be done with Mil Spec standard issue ammo.
The main thing about the day is I had a great time with my son and buddies out at the range. I suddenly have the jones for a new 20 inch bull upper with a 1:8 twist, a new stock with adjustable cheek piece and the biggest scope I can afford
Maybe for next Christmas!Be safe, good shooting and have a merry Christmas all!
