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Dragonfighter wrote:

74novaman wrote:

jamisjockey wrote: Can anyone find any stories about a person Open Carrying being singled out as the victim of a crime?

Took about 2 seconds on google.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/rep ... Patton.htm

SA man, SA; why were they allowed to get that close? I also think though what we worry about most and is unheard of in reality is the OCr being targeted as the first one shot.

I can think of of a few times when OC is practical. Hunting and fishing which we can do now, clip it on for a quick run, or mow the lawn. (Yes we can carry openly on our property legally but there are to many open ends when it comes to "brandishing" charges by nosy neighbors.) There are several other possibilities but from my frame of reference these are where I MIGHT OC.

No, a permit shouldn't be necessary for ANY carry...permits are an infringement, period. But practically speaking, there is the OC/CC hybrid. Permitted concealed carry and open carry without. I too would be happy if the exposure prohibitions or their penalties were removed but the only real way to do that unambiguously is to legalize OC.

I agree, situational awareness would have done a lot here.

Is it frequent? probably not. But does it happen? Obviously. Someone asked for an example, and I provided.

74novaman wrote:I agree, situational awareness would have done a lot here.

Is it frequent? probably not. But does it happen? Obviously. Someone asked for an example, and I provided.

It's possible but I think it's is more likely the criminal wins because the CHL didn't carry a spare magazine or they carried a 9mm Short (.380 ACP) instead of a real 9mm. If we believe RKBA is a right then the CHL should make the choice they want and not be limited by silly laws.

Seems many of the anti's get confused by the terms "keep and bear." But I am a bit surprised to see some of the pro-gunners who are confused about "shall not be infringed."

Since the McDonald decision incorporating the 2A into midst of the whole of Texas handgun law - common law, statutory law, and case law - the provision of Section 46.02 "criminalizing" unlicensed carry of a handgun without regard to concealment is null and void. This is a matter for the Texas Attorney General to address. He worked hard to achieve incorporation via McDonald. Now it is a fact of life. Any attempt by the State to enforce the criminal penalty prescribed in 46.02 in the absence of any collateral criminal conduct would now constitute a civil rights violation. The same situation applies to the provision of 46.035 (a) prescribing a criminal penalty for failure to conceal which now also amounts to a civil rights violation under the 2A.

At this time there is no provision under Texas law criminalizing the concealment of a handgun. The State of Texas now has two options. Texas may either establish an unambiguous standard of law that either recognizes the fundamental substantive right to carry a handgun concealed or in plain view subject only to reasonable restrictions pertaining to criminal or mental history, and specific sensitive locations, or regulate the concealment of a handgun as distinctive conduct subject to a licensing requirement.

The clock is ticking on Texas' 139 year old experiment with unconstitutional disarmament. I'm convinced this matter will have to be settled in a court room, because frankly - I don't believe the Legislature is up to the task. They are not even pluggged-in for 2 years, and then they rise from their slumber for 2 months without much of an agenda other than to try and placate their primary pet focus which is more funding for public education which is already over-funded and bloated at the administration levels. The Governor's office says this is an issue for the legislature to address, but I don't see that dog finding its way home any time soon. An AG opinion is definitely in order and that could stimulate some impetus for legislative action, if SOMEONE (like maybe the Governor) was interested in requesting an AG opinion.

74novaman wrote:

jamisjockey wrote:Can anyone find any stories about a person Open Carrying being singled out as the victim of a crime?

Took about 2 seconds on google.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/rep ... Patton.htm

An example is just anecdotal, it doesn't prove a case.

For every example, there is a counter-example: Open Carriers in a Waffle House. Armed robbers decided not to enter because they say there were armed customers. They were going to wait until the armed citizens left: Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw.

I prefer freedom. I open carried for years in Ohio. Gave me the chance to exercise both my First Amendment and Second Amendment rights with the same act.

Jumping Frog wrote:

74novaman wrote:

jamisjockey wrote:Can anyone find any stories about a person Open Carrying being singled out as the victim of a crime?

Took about 2 seconds on google.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/rep ... Patton.htm

An example is just anecdotal, it doesn't prove a case.

<SNIP>

I agree. But in all fairness, 74novaman was responding directly to jamisjockey's challenge.

One other aspect to consider, in my mind anyway, if whether or not I am going to live my life in fear of the ramifications my choices invoke. God forbid, I would be more stagnate than I am now. The reasons I would continue to CC suit my perspective but may not fit yours. Adherence to the God given right enumerated in (not granted by) the Constitution would assure either my CC or your OC would not be infringed by permits and arbitrary restrictions.

Interesting, but I'm not sure that article proves anything. Were they planning on robbing him anyways, and just decided to take the gun instead?

Alot of people bleat on about OC's being the first one shot in a bank robbery, etc, yet think that more hidden guns will prevent crime....


I'd rather be free than safe. Free, truely free, is an asbstract most people can't even begin to grasp.

I believe it was Tiger McKee who was the guest on Tom Gresham's Gun Talk who talked about open carry folks being targeted for crime. If my memory serves me he essentially said that he had never heard of someone who was Open Carrying being shot first, or having their gun taken away by a criminal. He did say however that he had heard about people OCing being followed home and then having their house burglarized by the criminal specifically looking for the firearms. Now for those who don't know who Tiger McKee is, he is considered one of the leading firearms instructors. Now I may be confusing Tiger with someone else who was a guest on the show, but that's not the point.

On another note, why is it we can't have a debate on OC without it degenerating into a children's argument? Its kind of like "Show me one example..." and then when that happens you hear "But that one doesn't count..."

Because I'm not sure thats a good example. A from-behind robbery where a gun was taken proves nothing, especially when the primary counter argument to legalizing open carry is "but, but, the criminals will shoot open carriers FIRST!"...

another OC thread?

I think it's The Bible that says gun control laws are the work of Satan. Now for those who don't know what The Bible is, it is the Word of God. Now I may be confusing The Bible with some other book I read, but that's not the point.

jamisjockey wrote:Because I'm not sure thats a good example. A from-behind robbery where a gun was taken proves nothing, especially when the primary counter argument to legalizing open carry is "but, but, the criminals will shoot open carriers FIRST!"...

from what I read, I didnt see anyone saying it should not be legal, that that they would not do it even if it was legal, That being said if you dont think wearing a gun on your hip makes you more of a target well I have to disagree, it does but at the same time, so does having a nice watch or driving a nice car.

It attracts attention to you which is something I try to avoid most of the time.

but at the end of the day, I fully support legalizing open carry

Cobra Medic wrote:I think it's The Bible that says gun control laws are the work of Satan.

Where?

pbwalker wrote:

Cobra Medic wrote:I think it's The Bible that says gun control laws are the work of Satan.

Where?

I believe it was a facetious post dealing with the "...it may have been someone else, but that's not the point..." statement.

Dragonfighter wrote:

pbwalker wrote:

Cobra Medic wrote:I think it's The Bible that says gun control laws are the work of Satan.

Where?

I believe it was a facetious post dealing with the "...it may have been someone else, but that's not the point..." statement.

ahhh...ok. I misunderstood...