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Beiruty wrote:There is difference between hunting and patroling in IED valley. Have you ever experienced a 155mm shell exploding mere yards away?
Hunters are not hard core soldiers. otherwise. US.would draft hunters

Can I substitute a 120mm Rocket, instead?

I hate to throw a wet blanket on the mutual congratulation society, but the danger to the U.S. is not foreign invasion by redcoats marching in rank and file like the 18th century. It is not "Red Dawn" fantasies. It is not even jet helicopters, missiles, or bearded terrorists.

It is financial deterioration and undermining the industrial base that won WW II and forestalled WW III. We can no longer build a car, airplane, television set, or computer from scratch. Don't bother saying we did it before and we can do it again. Water. Bridge.

How much U.S. debt is owned by communists, oil merchants, and other foreign interests that are not our bosom buddies?

Hunting rifles and shotguns will do nothing about unemployment, wage erosion, or bankruptcy.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:Hunting rifles and shotguns will do nothing about unemployment, wage erosion, or bankruptcy.

- Jim

Except perhaps to provide a chance at self-defense against the many angry and hungry people who are going to be roaming the streets.

It won't go down that way. The U.S. has surplus food that has to go somewhere.

This is the only country in the world with poor people who are overweight and own TV sets.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:I hate to throw a wet blanket on the mutual congratulation society, but the danger to the U.S. is not foreign invasion by redcoats marching in rank and file like the 18th century. It is not "Red Dawn" fantasies. It is not even jet helicopters, missiles, or bearded terrorists.

It is financial deterioration and undermining the industrial base that won WW II and forestalled WW III. We can no longer build a car, airplane, television set, or computer from scratch. Don't bother saying we did it before and we can do it again. Water. Bridge.

How much U.S. debt is owned by communists, oil merchants, and other foreign interests that are not our bosom buddies?

Hunting rifles and shotguns will do nothing about unemployment, wage erosion, or bankruptcy.

- Jim

I suspect that a large percentage of contributors to this forum tend to agree with you. I know that I do.

seamusTX wrote:It won't go down that way. The U.S. has surplus food that has to go somewhere.

This is the only country in the world with poor people who are overweight and own TV sets.

- Jim

Now perhaps. It depends on the kind of catastrophe of course, but people miss their TV's and get hungry pretty quickly, and a bout of hyperinflation, which continued "quantitative easing" is making increasingly plausible, can clear the grocery store shelves in a matter of days (though we would probably ease into empty shelves over a period of weeks). A lot of people don't behave all that well when they know the worst will be over in a few days or a couple weeks. After two weeks or so of empty supermarket shelves and unknown prospects, the entitlement crowd is going to get very restless.

VMI77 wrote:

seamusTX wrote:It won't go down that way. The U.S. has surplus food that has to go somewhere.

This is the only country in the world with poor people who are overweight and own TV sets.

- Jim

Now perhaps. It depends on the kind of catastrophe of course, but people miss their TV's and get hungry pretty quickly, and a bout of hyperinflation, which continued "quantitative easing" is making increasingly plausible, can clear the grocery store shelves in a matter of days (though we would probably ease into empty shelves over a period of weeks). A lot of people don't behave all that well when they know the worst will be over in a few days or a couple weeks. After two weeks or so of empty supermarket shelves and unknown prospects, the entitlement crowd is going to get very restless.

Yep, just look at Katrina.

But Jim makes very good points that there are plenty of nightmare scenarios that a lot of folks with guns can't solve. My original post - while not even my own thoughts - was meant more as a gee whiz thing about sheer numbers. Wasn't meaning to say "bring it on" to all the problems we hopefully will never face.

But if the zombies do come, at least we know we're ready

VMI77 wrote:It depends on the kind of catastrophe of course, but people miss their TV's and get hungry pretty quickly, and a bout of hyperinflation, which continued "quantitative easing" is making increasingly plausible, can clear the grocery store shelves in a matter of days (though we would probably ease into empty shelves over a period of weeks). A lot of people don't behave all that well when they know the worst will be over in a few days or a couple weeks. After two weeks or so of empty supermarket shelves and unknown prospects, the entitlement crowd is going to get very restless.

No one can explain to me why the billionaires who run this country would allow hyperinflation to occur (even if most of their fortunes are in Dubai and denominated in Swiss francs or euros).

The U.S. market and workforce are the source of their fortunes.

This country had real food shortages in the 1930s and 40s. The government dealt with them. People grumbled and literally tightened their belts, but there were no food riots.

I'm not saying that bad stuff can't happen—it can, does, and will. I'm trying to say that we need to be prepared for the most likely bad stuff with the limited resources that we have.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

VMI77 wrote:It depends on the kind of catastrophe of course, but people miss their TV's and get hungry pretty quickly, and a bout of hyperinflation, which continued "quantitative easing" is making increasingly plausible, can clear the grocery store shelves in a matter of days (though we would probably ease into empty shelves over a period of weeks). A lot of people don't behave all that well when they know the worst will be over in a few days or a couple weeks. After two weeks or so of empty supermarket shelves and unknown prospects, the entitlement crowd is going to get very restless.

No one can explain to me why the billionaires who run this country would allow hyperinflation to occur (even if most of their fortunes are in Dubai and denominated in Swiss francs or euros).

The U.S. market and workforce are the source of their fortunes.

This country had real food shortages in the 1930s and 40s. The government dealt with them. People grumbled and literally tightened their belts, but there were no food riots.

I'm not saying that bad stuff can't happen—it can, does, and will. I'm trying to say that we need to be prepared for the most likely bad stuff with the limited resources that we have.

- Jim

It isn't a matter of allowing it; If it happens it will be because the people operating the financial system aren't as smart at they think they are, and the actions they take have consequences they don't expect, either because they don't have all the necessary information to make the right decisions, their Keynesian money theories are wrong, or actions taken by other players, mistakenly or otherwise, affect system fundamentals in ways that defy correction. Furthermore, the system is complex, timing alone is a critical component to actions taken, and even if they make all the right theoretical decisions, unintended consequences may occur just because they act too soon or too late.

Also, I don't share the optimism implied by your comparison with the Great Depression. This isn't the America of the 30's, culturally, morally, or economically. For one thing, there was no entitlement class in 1930; and for another, our economy was based on production, not service.

I don't share your pessimism about this country.

But please do whatever you think is appropriate.

- Jim

"Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto, Fleet Admiral and Commander-in-Chief of the Imerial Japanese Navy during WWII.

I think this is closer to what the original OP was trying to convey.

Beiruty wrote:There is difference between hunting and patroling in IED valley. Have you ever experienced a 155mm shell exploding mere yards away?
Hunters are not hard core soldiers. otherwise. US.would draft hunters

The kill radius for a 155mm HE (High Explosive) Howitzer shell is more than a few yards (I believe it is 50 meters, but I might be confusing that with an 8 inch since I worked with both). I can pretty confidently say that no one posting on these boards has had the experience of having a 155mm shell explode mere yards away. The same holds true for the currently living and functional members of the US military, so this is really not much of a distinction.

Good point about military training being important, but remember that a large part of the armed citizenry of the US are military veterans. Given that the vast majority of folks who enlist do not make the military a career, I'd have to imagine that we have more armed veterans living in the US than we have active duty / reserved forces. Sure they may not have tanks, but many have small arms that are on a par with what the average soldier / marine is issued.

If a foreign army did choose to invade the US mainland, they would be up against one hell of an insurgency. Ever seen the movie "Red Dawn"?

Beiruty wrote:There is difference between hunting and patroling in IED valley. Have you ever experienced a 155mm shell exploding mere yards away?
Hunters are not hard core soldiers. otherwise. US.would draft hunters

There is a lot to be said about fighting for your homeland on your homeland's soil.

Many of this nations war were won by men who recieved most of their firearms training prior to being enlisted. A man with a rifle and the skill and will to use it is a man with a rifle and the skill and will to use it, especially when protecting his loved ones.

Imo, the biggest difference between a civilian with the will to fight and a soldier is not their training. It is the organization, heavy artillary, equipment, and supply chain.

Unfortunately, the average American is not what he used to be. Kids now grow up playing video games, eating junk food, and are taught that guns are bad. When our grandfathers were growing up, they worked outside and grew up being taught to use a rifle.