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The Annoyed Man wrote:

G192627 wrote:The thing about this Sig that I'm attracted to is the gas piston. It keeps is *very* clean.

Gas-pistons aren't new. I have an M1A, which is basically an extension of the M1 Garand design of the mid 1930s, and it has a gas-piston. You still have to clean the receiver group and keep it properly lubed. A rifle's chamber will still become dirty without gas blowback from a tube. That fouling will still accumulate around the bolt, bolt face, and the receiver. A gas-piston design doesn't guarantee cleanliness. It simply reduces the amount of fouling around the chamber and the receiver and its parts, and it makes cleaning them easier. If it weren't so, you would never have to clean a bolt action rifle.

I have nothing against gas pistons. I think my M1A's system is pretty cool. But I just like for there to be clarity about their use in the real world. A gas piston won't keep your rifle spic and span. It will merely reduce the amount of effort to clean it, and it will fire a lot more rounds before become too fouled to fire.

Agreed with all of it. The section in red is why I'm attracted to the gas piston. I don't think it will make my rifle clean all the time or that I'd never have to clean, but it would make it more enjoyable to use and clean because of how it handles the fouling that builds up.

The Annoyed Man wrote: But if you don't clean your gas piston rifle with some regularity, you will sooner or later experience failures related to fouling. Furthermore, you still have to lube them about the same amount, and they will go "dry" about as fast as any other semi-automatic "assault" type rifle. They aren't an absolute panacea, but they are being marketed as if they were, and manufacturers are charging a pretty penny for adding this gizmo to your rifle. Gas-pistons are a good idea, and there are some reliability benefits to having one if you are stuck in a protracted firefight and burning up lots and lots of ammo.

Agreed on all counts. My motive for the gas piston is just to improve the odds of avoiding failure if I ever have to use for an extended period of time. I don't think they solve all problems, but they do improve the stats/odds of issues over time.
In reality, my rifle will likely get shot for fun, 3-gun matches, ranges. God-forbid it's needed for SD or a Katrina-type society breakdown (which I've experienced once before... during Katrina), but if that happens, I like my odds better. Given my likely use, the piston is probably not necessary. I'll clean it after every shoot and keep it spic and span just like all my other weapons. I see the piston as merely an 'insurance' piece of having a little better setup 'just in case'.

As for the red section... I highlighted because I've read otherwise. It will go dry as other rifles, but the piston system keeps it slightly cooler and slows down the oil evaporation process, etc, so it will stay lubed longer.

G192627 wrote:It will go dry as other rifles, but the piston system keeps it slightly cooler and slows down the oil evaporation process, etc, so it will stay lubed longer.

Sounds nice in theory, but I'd like to see it in practice. I have a heavy barreled .308 bolt rifle that gets fed maybe 60-80 rounds on a range day, fired in single spaced shots, usually a minimum of a couple of minutes apart, often longer than that. After the first 10 rounds or so, the barrel is very hot to touch. The receiver is only a little bit cooler than that, and the bolt gets cycled at "hand speed." I don't know how fast the bolt cycles in an AR (depending on load, of course), but it can't be more than a few hundreds of a second. Maybe faster than that. At some point, it becomes about the kind and amount of lubricant you're using, rather than the means by which the bolt is cycled.... ....unless your gun fires from an open bolt. Rifles firing from an open bolt run considerably cooler than rifles fired from a closed bolt. There aren't many assault type rifles that do fire from an open bolt, and the AR isn't one of them. The LWRC M6 does. A few HK models do.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

G192627 wrote:It will go dry as other rifles, but the piston system keeps it slightly cooler and slows down the oil evaporation process, etc, so it will stay lubed longer.

Sounds nice in theory, but I'd like to see it in practice. I have a heavy barreled .308 bolt rifle that gets fed maybe 60-80 rounds on a range day, fired in single spaced shots, usually a minimum of a couple of minutes apart, often longer than that. After the first 10 rounds or so, the barrel is very hot to touch. The receiver is only a little bit cooler than that, and the bolt gets cycled at "hand speed." I don't know how fast the bolt cycles in an AR (depending on load, of course), but it can't be more than a few hundreds of a second. Maybe faster than that. At some point, it becomes about the kind and amount of lubricant you're using, rather than the means by which the bolt is cycled.... ....unless your gun fires from an open bolt. Rifles firing from an open bolt run considerably cooler than rifles fired from a closed bolt. There aren't many assault type rifles that do fire from an open bolt, and the AR isn't one of them. The LWRC M6 does. A few HK models do.

Yeah, it could be part of the marketing hype around pistons.
Good stuff. Thanks.

WEC wrote:This is only my opinion, but Sigarms USA has taken Sig firearms from "doing one thing and doing it well" to a market-based, sale-oriented company. Their quality has declined markedly since the days of German-made pistols. They are making all sorts of odds and ends now, forsaking quality for quantity. They still make some quality guns, but they are a far cry from the Sig of yesteryear.

I concur. I love Sig, but they haven't been in the AR or 1911 business that long. They're simply catering to the masses to generate sales. Just like everyone else though. Seems like everyone has a version of AR, 1911, and pocket .380 now.

If Jeep every comes out with sports cars I'll probably pass

jeeperbryan wrote:If Jeep every comes out with sports cars I'll probably pass

But if Peterbilt ever does, I'll sign up!

If I where you I would probably consider a LMT, BCM or Noveske first before a Sig...
I have seen the Sig but the unknown just got into AR's factor give's me pause.

So...

Yesterday, I discovered that my wife bought a new house. Sounds crazy right? It is!! We've been kicking around moving for a year or 2, and now we are. When I woke up yesterday, the idea of moving within the next 6 months wasn't even on my mind, but she found this house and to her credit recognized the seller was asking too little, so she offered full price, and I expect the seller to accept.
So, between all the moving costs, the obvious new house cost, and having 2 houses for a couple of months at least... I am putting the AR on hold. LOL

What's funny is that I want an AR so much, instead of putting it off, I started looking at less expensive options again like S&W, RRA, or DPMS.
(I need a lesson in patience)

Is there anyway you can roll the cost of an AR into the mortgage? That would be sweet. Maybe you could ask for an AR as a concession from the seller...

jeeperbryan wrote:Is there anyway you can roll the cost of an AR into the mortgage? That would be sweet. Maybe you could ask for an AR as a concession from the seller...

If they are asking way less than its worth you might could get cash back. Expensive in the long run but hey, you only live once.

Good luck on the house and the AR acquisition. Save your money and time and get what you want.

LOL @ rolling it into the mortgage.


I may get a better deal if I get the AR now, and use while negotiating...