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Not sure if this applies to this thread, but just a random thought. I talked to a guy tonight from England and he was saying how shocked he was that you could just walk into a range and practice shooting a firearm. Over there not even cops have guns so to see someone with a pistol, people freak out. I would be curious to see crime statistics per capita between England vs. more of a pro-2A state like Texas. Would there be any correlation between these stats or would it be apples and oranges?

Do a search on FBI violent crime statistics, then compare it with this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... urope.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Remember they don't report them like we do, they only report on convictions.

I think this at least gets the general idea across:

The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

France:
In France, the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen and the abolition of the privileges after the french revolution guarantee the right for all French citizens to possess firearms. But several recent laws considerably limit this right. Currently, full automatic weapons are banned and to bear weapons is prohibited

Germany:
A firearms ownership license (Waffenbesitzkarte) must be obtained before a weapon can be purchased. Owners of multiple firearms need separate ownership licenses for every single firearm they own. It entitles owners to purchase firearms and handle them on their own property and any private property with property owner consent. On public premises, a licensed firearm must be transported unloaded and in a stable, fully enclosing, locked container.

Italy:
Italian citizens don't have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, but different types of licenses can be obtained by the local police authorities. The applicant must be 18 or older, prove he can handle and use a firearm safely, must provide a clean criminal record and must not be mentally ill or be a known abuser of, or addicted to, alcohol or illegal drugs.

Spain:
With regards to hand guns, there is a possibility to obtain a licence and purchase but the applicant has to become member of the Spanish federation of olimpic shooting, and pass several tests. The gun cannot be carried around unless on the way to the shooting venue and by law they have to be kept in a safe. Some pressure has been put in the legislative body to pass a regulation to the effect that hand guns should be kept in the federation´s premises and only removed on the day of shooting. However, so far licenced handgun owners can keep them at home.



The other 4 countries are very limited on carry and purchase, but people can at least purchase handguns to defend themselves in their home.

And this articles has statistics and names Britain as the most violent country in Europe, with violent crime rates ahead of the US and South Africa.
http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2007/01/cr ... in-us.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Commander wrote:I saw an interview on FoxNews today with Sheppard Smith and Chuck Schumer. Smith asked a question about the 30 round mag used by the Tuscon shooter "who needs that big a magazine?" Schumer's reply was "no one". Schumer went on to talk about the 10 round limit that was in the assault weapon ban and how it had expired. Schumer said he was a supporter of the right to bear arms, but felt that "reasonable" restrictions should be used to protect lives.

I've got a bad feeling about this. The antis are going to push 10 round limits as "reasonable" and paint those opposed as unreasonable and opposed to saving lives. Unfortunately, I think some type of large capacity mag ban will be passed.

Major network news Poll announced today on their poll

57% favor crippled capacity mags

Write Your Representative
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
Senators of the 112th Congress
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_i ... m?State=IL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just e-mailed my legislators, and CC to John Lott, the following, which you probably saw me say before: (Sorry for the length)
================================================================
“The only purpose for the existence of these devices” "they are ONLY used for" is Brady rhetorical lies, as I'll prove below.


It isn’t the “bill of needs” we don’t need to justify a need for a fire extinguisher to own one, and we hope to actually never “need” it.

How about them bazillion capacity ammo clips?


What did Babyface Nelson do after being shot 17 times?

He killed the 2 agents that shot him, then he went home. (Only to die later that evening)


Read the recent headline twice, think about it...

Angel Alvarez, hit 23 times in Harlem shootout with cops, held without bail on weapons charges

Actually, if one thinks about it … what about multiple attackers?

One recent example in the news, easily Googleable:
Houston, Texas
Ramon Castillo and Eva, his wife of 30 years, Jewelry Store owners face-off with three armed men who were going to tie them up and shoot them in the head.

Four bullets pierced Castillo’s body six times because he had to run around getting 3 different “low capacity” guns to fight back.

Castillo’s condition was upgraded to fair Wednesday, and he is expected to recover fully. The family has set up a website to help with medical bills

Though “regular” capacity magazines in a “normal” capacity Glock could have benefited Mr. Castillo.



WAIT !!! you don't have to believe just 1 real victim, Mr. Castillo.

An EMPLOYEE of the Brady Campaign PROVED 10 rounds isn’t enough when faced with multiple attackers long ago.

3 criminals, Two at 3 bullets each, and someone gets the 4th… 2 x 3=9 +1 = 10

To be honest and fair, I carry one in the chamber too.
10 in mag plus 1 in the chamber = 11,

So with 3 criminals, two criminals can be shot 4 times, one shot 3 times. (assuming no misses)

ok, 3 or 4 bullets each right?

right?

April 2007 in a hospital bed with four gunshot entry wounds and a single exit wound. Colin Goddard “wound up full of bullets”

Colin Goddard received multiple gunshot wounds to the leg, shoulder, and buttocks.

(So if he had been a “bad guy” he could have still been a threat, hands and arms and trigger fingers still working)

Thanks Colin, you proved my point, 10 isn’t NECESSARILY enough to STOP a threat from 3 home invaders, 3 robbers, a street gang …. maybe not even enough for 2 criminals, possibly not enough for one criminal, as shown by Babyface Nelson, Angel Alvarez and countless others.

How many bullets do I need?

You want to regulate how many bullets do I need in a magazine to survive against 4 or 5 home invaders, keeping in mind I can’t reload fast with only one hand which is arthritic? Especially at a time adrenaline takes control during the invasion causing my hand to shake, and I’m trying to “bob and weave and duck for cover”, as fast as an old man can

Are you aware there's no Hollywood one-stop-shot "smart bullet" with a
guidance control system available to homeowners? Do you recall the
incidents where police shot a criminal numerous times yet he
refused to fall down and quit shooting back?

Isn't reducing elderly disabled people's magazine capacity a violation of "equal protection under the law" ad the ADA, in favor of 4 or 5 home invaders, to the detriment of the elderly disabled person?

Who do I contact to file an Americans with Disabilities complaint against legislators trying to unconstitutionally assure my death in my own home by causing me to call a "time out" for 5 minutes while I reload ... do robber respect "time outs" Do I have to make that "T" sign with my hands like they do in sports? I hope not, I only have 1 hand, it's arthritic and I can't do the T-sign.



Why do legislators want to let the criminals' baseball team use bats, and not let me have as good equipment?

Hmmm, I looked up "murder" "baseball bat" and found MORE occurrences than "murder" 30 round clip" so shouldn’t baseball bats be outlawed first, since they are used in more murders and assaults? Getting hit by a 30 round magazine, hurts less than getting hit by a baseball bat, I can verify that, I just tried it on myself.

Oh wait, they have a "justifiable use" sort of like those non-crippled non-reduced capacity magazines which could come in handy for defensive purposes.

Let's not just discuss all the defensive uses though.

Ever take a group of kids fishing and try to keep all their hooks baited?

In today's world of electronic games, kids are used to action, they don't like waiting.

When taking a church youth group or 4-H club to the shooting range, they don't like to ALL stop while one of the kid's magazines needs to be recharged.

Millions and millions of "regular capacity" magazines have been sold, ONE was used in a crime, there could be other reasons, valid usages and needs for them ... ya think?



While we're at it ...

How bout them “assault rifles?” Oops, I mean “home defense rifles”

AK-47? isn’t that one the Brady Campaign says has “no defensive
use?” ]

January 10, 2011 at 9:14p.m Hidalgo County Sheriff’s Office Deputies
were dispatched to 3405 Farmosa, NW of Mission,Tx in Hidalgo County in
reference to shots fired, home invasion by 4 to 5 male suspects. The
owner shot at the intruders with his AK -47 hitting one of the suspects
in the chest.

AR-15? wait no, it seems like only yesterday Dr.
Suzanna Hupp, testifying before Congress reminded us of a man on his
rooftop during riots defending his home and life with an AR-15


Are you an elderly disabled handicapped man who has been held hostage twice, once by two armed men, another time by 5 armed men? No? Then I'm a better judge of that than you are, dontcha think?

How many hurricanes, evacuations and aftermaths or other natural
disasters have you been through to know what I “need”? Not as many as I have? Then I’m a better judge of that than you are, dontcha think?

I've been thinking about another dangerous item too, it causes lots of deaths. Ice cream has no purpose except causing obesity, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, heart disease, increased risk of stroke and heart attack. This is causing increased health care costs to Americans, and I know this concerns you. Please either find a useful purpose and need, or ban the ice cream in your freezer.



Now, back to crimes, I discovered a common link used in every shooting crime and mass murder, and you should ban it!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT every wacko uses this or that gun or magazine or knife.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of these crazies trying to kill others wears shoes
They help them get from place to place to hurt MORE people, and sometimes are used in escapes. Ban shoes.
(The TSA and airports will be safer too, they make you take them off anyway.)



Brady Dictionary:
Loophole [loop-hohl] or (ˈluːpˌhəʊl)
–noun
1) freedom

Usage: Householders are set to defy a law banning “old fashioned light
bulbs" and "non-energy star appliances" by exploiting a loophole in new legislation allowing individuals to sell used items to other individuals without government paperwork and fees. Legislators want to
eliminate that "loophole" Loopholes can be frightening to a totalitarian government with desires to increase control.

The THIRD Amendment to the Constitution is a reason we have a Second.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

To ensure this:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

So, we have a right to protect ourselves, since the army is armed and otherwise might take advantage of us.

This means, an inalienable right to protect ourselves is recognized.

Thanks founding Fathers, for the “Bill of ‘justifiable usages and needs” wait, I mean the Bill of Rights.



You do want us to decide what YOU “need” too right?

How many of those OPTIONS in your car do you NEED.
Got any ice cream in your freezer?
Please justify why you “need” it, I’m drafting a bill.

Please leave my "freedoms" and "rights" alone, you "Brady loophole" you, else justify a need for your ice cream (smile)

I'm a bit old and grey-headed to have my mommy decide what I need, especially when the legislator is younger than I.

I don't hunt, I don't kill defenseless animals, I am not now and never have been an NRA member, I do value life, that's why I am armed.

If you enjoy freedom, thank a veteran, if you really enjoy freedom, thank a disabled veteran, if you want to KEEP the freedoms for which a high PRICE was paid, contact your legislators.



I'm just glad that Jared didn't drive through the crowd with a car injuring and killing more people.
They should pass a law about drug users driving.
That should stop that sort of thing, especially if they ban shoes.

---------------------------------

Anyone may freely print, quote (as long as it's accurate) and use or redistribute this as they see fit, providing it is to further the freedoms it was written to elucidate.

In the interest of privacy and security for a disabled old man, personal information about the author is being withheld.


........

Feel free to use any part of that, if you would write your own legislators, or write your own, but if you don't let your legislators know what you want, then you may as well not have voted last election.

jcarp02 wrote:Not sure if this applies to this thread, but just a random thought. I talked to a guy tonight from England and he was saying how shocked he was that you could just walk into a range and practice shooting a firearm. Over there not even cops have guns so to see someone with a pistol, people freak out. I would be curious to see crime statistics per capita between England vs. more of a pro-2A state like Texas. Would there be any correlation between these stats or would it be apples and oranges?

Unless one controls for various societal differences, those comparisons would be invalid. Also, one would need to look at the same statistics from, say 1900, when neither country had much in the way of gun laws. If the British murder rate was significantly lower then, one could conclude that differences in murder rates were unrelated to gun laws. Another way to approach the question is through time series analysis and an event study methodology. If murder rates changed after passage of a gun law, then one might wonder if there was an effect; although we cannot be certain since "correlation does not imply causation."

The founders knew what to do about gun control. At the Old North Bridge, nearly 235 years ago, "the embattled farmers stood" and demonstrated the correct response to any attempt to restrict civilian arms.

jcarp02 wrote:Not sure if this applies to this thread, but just a random thought. I talked to a guy tonight from England and he was saying how shocked he was that you could just walk into a range and practice shooting a firearm. Over there not even cops have guns so to see someone with a pistol, people freak out. I would be curious to see crime statistics per capita between England vs. more of a pro-2A state like Texas. Would there be any correlation between these stats or would it be apples and oranges?

Have you seen this? You can click on each color coded "balloon" for more info, surprise, criminals have guns, the ones who don't use knives, blunt objects etc ..

This is London ONLY, not all the U.K.

Take a look http://www.murdermap.co.uk/murder-map.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jcarp02 wrote:Over there not even cops have guns so to see someone with a pistol, people freak out.

The cops most certainly do have guns there, and not just "pistols" either, so this guy is ignorant of the most basic realities in his own country. While the majority of the police are still unarmed they have armed police on patrol, in public, with "assault" rifles. Years ago the police weren't armed and they didn't walk around with weapons like they do now. Funny how with all the gun control there the police are finding the need to arm themselves. This first article is about a guy riding a bike who pulled a handgun and shot at a cop. Read the pathetic comments following the article. The UK is a nation of serfs who appear to be soundly against anyone defending themselves against criminals, including the police. This is the public attitude the liberals in this country are trying to cultivate --a population of subjects disturbed at even the suggestion of self-defense.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... hooting.do

http://www.nwodaily.com/.../martial-law ... h-policing

http://www.life.com/image/1694245

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2010 ... rts15.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33448132/

http://english.cri.cn/4026/2007/07/03/167@245043.htm

EconDoc wrote:

jcarp02 wrote:Not sure if this applies to this thread, but just a random thought. I talked to a guy tonight from England and he was saying how shocked he was that you could just walk into a range and practice shooting a firearm. Over there not even cops have guns so to see someone with a pistol, people freak out. I would be curious to see crime statistics per capita between England vs. more of a pro-2A state like Texas. Would there be any correlation between these stats or would it be apples and oranges?

Unless one controls for various societal differences, those comparisons would be invalid. Also, one would need to look at the same statistics from, say 1900, when neither country had much in the way of gun laws. If the British murder rate was significantly lower then, one could conclude that differences in murder rates were unrelated to gun laws. Another way to approach the question is through time series analysis and an event study methodology. If murder rates changed after passage of a gun law, then one might wonder if there was an effect; although we cannot be certain since "correlation does not imply causation."

Societal differences is why I was asking if it would be comparing apples and oranges. That's why I posted the comparisons to other European countries. Still tough to distinguish because although they allow citizens to own firearms, they still do not let them carry.

No matter what, it is still interesting to look at a case study for a country and see that gun control does not work.

Simple thought, without trying to play the why needed whatsit good for, and do we have a right to them game:

Even supposing every law abiding citizen turned in their evil magazine.

Here's the thing:

Criminals bring tons of drugs into the country weekly.
Jared knew where to buy them.
Don't think criminals can bring magazines into the country?


Got any dogs trained to sniff plastic yet?
Got any plastic in your cell phone, car, luggage?
Is the polyester in my shirt a plastic?
Tear apart anything made of plastic that comes in?

You don't think Jared could find out where to buy one?
He found where to buy drugs.
You don't think those drug cartels will also sell magazines if it's profitable, and be easier to sneak by the dogs?

So, what did you accomplish?
You got millions of them out of the hands of people who weren't committing crimes and used them at the practice range.
You got millions of them out of the hands of people who could use them for defense, since it isn't unknown for one criminal to fight after being shot 17 or more times.
You got millions of them out of the hands of people who needed more when attacked by multiple attackers, who turned theirs in.

Crackheads will have them, bought on the same corners they get the drugs, just through the new distributor, sales tax not included.
No sales tax revenue
Current distribution network of distributors, wholesalers and retailers suffer job losses, Income tax revenues decrease with fewer workers needed.
U.S.P.S, Fedex, UPS won't be shipping them to distributors who ship them to wholesalers who ship them to retailers who ship them to customers, so revenues go down, not creating more jobs, probably losing some more jobs due to less shipping demand, but increase in postage.
More jobless people resorting to crime for incomes.
More magazines sold to criminals by organized crime, increasing their profit.
Our deficit increases due to needing more plastic sniffing dogs and border guards and police.
Criminals feel safer and commit more crimes with high capacity magazines.
Organized crime takes increased profits and buys better equipment, we respond by spending more to keep up, further increasing our deficit by spending more of our newly reduced revenue.
Yeah, we need more of that.

Article http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index. ... lance.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I can't comment on it ... I guess I need a Facepad account or wutevah

Excaliber wrote:

jimlongley wrote:Chuckie also said he was a supporter of 2A rights when he was "proving" how bad it was to allow .50 caliber rifles in civilian hands.

You know, the ones that can shoot through a "three inch manhole cover" (no such thing.)
the ones that can penetrate a "concrete wall" (actually stacked cinder blocks with no mortar.)
the ones that can go right through a "600 pound safe" (actually a secure file cabinet.)

The man has no honesty in him.

No, but his campaign against .50 caliber rifles is pretty easily neutralized by asking him to cite a few instances where one of those 24 pound rifles was used in a crime.

Actually when that response was used, his response was to point out that he was being proactive and therefore saving the lives at risk without banning .50 caliber rifles.

Excerpts:

SEC. 2. PROHIBITION ON TRANSFER OR POSSESSION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.

`(30) The term `large capacity ammunition feeding device'--

`(A) means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; but

`(B) does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.'.

`(8) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(v) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.'.

(d) Identification Markings- Section 923(i) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following: `A large capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall be identified by a serial number that clearly shows that the device was manufactured after such date of enactment, and such other identification as the Attorney General may by regulation prescribe.'.

FULL text at: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.308" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:

Linked to that by this article: http://www.acorn-online.com/joomla15/wi ... zines.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;