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I've had a lot of people ask me to just give them the paperwork and I always decline to do so. Not just because it's illegal, but it would rob them of a good educational foundation for carrying a concealed firearm. Without knowing what's right and what's wrong, one could wind up spending the rest of their life behind bars or worse….

Justin Franklin wrote:I've had a lot of people ask me to just give them the paperwork and I always decline to do so. Not just because it's illegal, but it would rob them of a good educational foundation for carrying a concealed firearm. Without knowing what's right and what's wrong, one could wind up spending the rest of their life behind bars or worse….

Even worse, they could become your cellmate. I have no doubt that if a defendant thought he could push some blame onto his instructor, he'd be singing the instructor's name before the cop finishes reading Miranda.

MasterOfNone wrote: Even worse, they could become your cellmate. I have no doubt that if a defendant thought he could push some blame onto his instructor, he'd be singing the instructor's name before the cop finishes reading Miranda.

I sort of feel the same way. Even though we cannot be held criminally liable, we all know anyone can be sued for just about anything. An instructor may not do jail time for something a student does, but they may pay for it.

I know this was in California, but take the OJ trial for example. He was found not guilty in criminal court, but he lost in civil court.

Justin Franklin wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote: Even worse, they could become your cellmate. I have no doubt that if a defendant thought he could push some blame onto his instructor, he'd be singing the instructor's name before the cop finishes reading Miranda.

I sort of feel the same way. Even though we cannot be held criminally liable, we all know anyone can be sued for just about anything. An instructor may not do jail time for something a student does, but they may pay for it.

I know this was in California, but take the OJ trial for example. He was found not guilty in criminal court, but he lost in civil court.

In the hypothetical case I had responded to:

Justin Franklin wrote:I've had a lot of people ask me to just give them the paperwork

the instruct could do time for falsifying the documents.

MasterOfNone wrote:

Justin Franklin wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote: Even worse, they could become your cellmate. I have no doubt that if a defendant thought he could push some blame onto his instructor, he'd be singing the instructor's name before the cop finishes reading Miranda.

I sort of feel the same way. Even though we cannot be held criminally liable, we all know anyone can be sued for just about anything. An instructor may not do jail time for something a student does, but they may pay for it.

I know this was in California, but take the OJ trial for example. He was found not guilty in criminal court, but he lost in civil court.

In the hypothetical case I had responded to:

Justin Franklin wrote:I've had a lot of people ask me to just give them the paperwork

the instruct could do time for falsifying the documents.

We weren't on the same page here. I thought I was clear when I said I would not do such a thing. I was referencing something more along the lines of a student's actions involving the use of their firearm after taking the course.

Hope this clears that up.

After some poking around...

Apparently she's been doing a $65 class. This was posted at SlickDeals:

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2195543" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And it links to her web site at licensedtocarry.com

(as evidenced by this post: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showpost.p ... stcount=99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

If this is true, I'd imagine she'll lose her instructor cert over it, and face some stiff penalties... Price is cheap, but I guess it didn't work out so well... Heck, my class wasn't that much more expensive ($90), and that included the fingerprints, notary, pictures, and a ham sammich & chips for lunch (though that part was much to the chagrin of the Middle Eastern feller who was in my class).

i8godzilla wrote:What about the students that sent in applications without taking the test? They knew that did not pass the class. Did they commit any crimes by doing so? Are they walking around with concealed weapons, when they have not met the requirements?

Yes, the instructor needs to be punished! But if three students decided to stay, then my guess is that they all could have stayed if they insisted.

I tend to agree, but also believe that some folks probably thought that the instructor was qualified and compliant and did not realize they had not met the requirements for certification.

Found this review in a Google search of her name.

http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid ... t7m0rdMCKg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am speechless!

not sure if any of you were at the HGCA show this weekend at Reliant in Houston, but i recall a booth there advertising a "secret" CHL course that's 5 hours long and doesn't require a written exam or shooting proficiency test. i just kept walking because i've already taken the course, but now that i think about it i should have gotten some info from those guys to see if what they're advertising is legit. sounds to me like it's not.

as for the original topic of this post, i agree.. kudos to the student who filed the complaint. unfortunately there are some instructors out there who do things the wrong way. in fact, a couple years ago my father was talking with a CHL instructor and the guy offered to just sign the papers saying he completed and passed the course without him actually being there to take it (he declined the offer).

Justin Franklin wrote:Found this review in a Google search of her name.

http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid ... t7m0rdMCKg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am speechless!

I read the review. And WOW

One thing that I did pick up on is the fact that the class was paid for with PayPal. Each and every student that paid in the this fashion can request a refund if the State revokes their CHL for not meeting the training requirement. I hope they all do!

They would just need to provide the copy of the letter that the DPS is sure to send them.

MasterOfNone wrote:

Commander Cody wrote:Two years is not enough for this THIEF.

How about 40 counts at 2 years each?

I was going to point that out. You have to sign the form TWICE, once for the proficiency test, and once for the written test. So would that be 2 years X (40 - 3) students X 2 counts each for a total of 148 years? Sounds about right to me!

And she did it because the range fees went up? Hope that works out for her!

(The article said something about 3 students staying to take the prof-test -- was clear if ANY took the written test.

Yes, students may not be aware of ALL the requirements, but MOST should know there is a written and proficiency test required before taking the course.

Justin Franklin wrote:I've had a lot of people ask me to just give them the paperwork and I always decline to do so. Not just because it's illegal, but it would rob them of a good educational foundation for carrying a concealed firearm. Without knowing what's right and what's wrong, one could wind up spending the rest of their life behind bars or worse….

Did you ever think that one of them could have been working undercover for the DPS?

rmr1923 wrote:not sure if any of you were at the HGCA show this weekend at Reliant in Houston, but i recall a booth there advertising a "secret" CHL course that's 5 hours long and doesn't require a written exam or shooting proficiency test. i just kept walking because i've already taken the course, but now that i think about it i should have gotten some info from those guys to see if what they're advertising is legit. sounds to me like it's not.

FYI -- that sounds like a Utah license.

sjfcontrol wrote:Yes, students may not be aware of ALL the requirements, but MOST should know there is a written and proficiency test required before taking the course.

Especially when the CHL-100 says "PROFICIENCY SCORE:" and "FINAL EXAM SCORE:". And she took them to the range, so they had to know there was a shooting test. I expect that their CHL-100s will be considered invalid and they'll have to get the legitimate training.

WildBill wrote:

Justin Franklin wrote:I've had a lot of people ask me to just give them the paperwork and I always decline to do so. Not just because it's illegal, but it would rob them of a good educational foundation for carrying a concealed firearm. Without knowing what's right and what's wrong, one could wind up spending the rest of their life behind bars or worse….

Did you ever think that one of them could have been working undercover for the DPS?

I doubt it -- that sounds like entrapment to me. Now if a student/undercover-cop were to say, "I can't afford (the money, time, etc), isn't there a way to do this (quicker/cheaper)?", and then the instructor says something about bypassing testing or classtime, that would probably be OK.