CHL'ers and church security

[chasfm11]

Our current church was burglarized in the middle of the day. They pried through a locked door (with people inside the building who did not hear it) and carted some stuff away. The church is not, by any stretch, in a bad part of town where "opportunists" would normally frequent. Someone had big brass ones to even attempt it because a stranger in the environment would be fairly easy to pick out.

Some "opportunists" follow the obituaries in the newspaper, look up the address of deceased and then pay that address a visit during the posted funeral service time. Most of our funerals allocate someone to watch the house for the family during services. Those same opportunists can assume that the church building is open during the posted worship service times (ours is) and wait 15 minutes afterward to begin their scavenger hunt. My personal concern isn't that they take things but that someone might confront them and have them resort to a weapon. Who knows how far south things could go from there.

[jmra]

i find it interesting a church needs security at all. you need someone to walk to halls to make sure things dont get stolen during service?lol

If the only people gracing the doors of a church are perfect little Christians, then the church is not doing what it was called to do. The purpose of the church is to reach the lost. It is not uncommon at all for very rough individuals to visit our church. It is also not uncommon at all for those individuals to have a life changing moment and become a new person.

It is also a matter of simple math. The church I attend has 3200 families that call it their home church. Any venue that draws a large crowd will draw people with alternative motives.

[ELB]

WRT to "Security:"

Yes, it has been discussed here several times. I feel another FAQ coming on. But sticking to this thread: "Security" is regulated by the State of Texas thru the Private Security Bureau, which is part of the DPS. It doesn't matter whether you are volunteer or are paid, if you perform a security function, you must be licensed by the state (to be legal). The PSB has specifically addressed church security teams with this on their website under Opinion Summaries:

Church Volunteer Security Patrol
Opinions Issued in Response to Questions from Industry & the Public February 2006 through May 2009These opinions are merely advisory guidelines intended to inform the public and the regulated community of the Bureau’s position and to afford an opportunity to licensees for voluntary compliance. They are not binding on the Bureau or any other law enforcement agency, and should not be relied on as authority in support of or defense against any enforcement action. They are subject to modification at the Bureau’s discretion.
...

May 10, 2007
A volunteer security patrol made up of church members would generally require licensing under the provisions of Section 1702.108 or 1702.222, regardless of whether any compensation is received as a result of the activities. The only exception to licensing provided by the legislature for nonprofit and civic organizations is found in Section 1702.327, which applies specifically to nonprofit and civic organizations that employ peace officers under certain circumstances and would not be applicable here.

However, there is one exception to licensing under Chapter 1702 provided by the legislature that could arguably apply, which can be found in section 1702.323 (“Security Department of Private Business”). This exception would allow volunteers to provide security services exclusively for one church, as long as they do not carry firearms and as long as they do not wear “a uniform with any type of badge commonly associated with security personnel or law enforcement or a patch or apparel with ‘security’ on the patch or apparel.” See TEX. OCC. CODE §1702.323(a) & (d)(2). Thus, the wearing of a uniform or any apparel containing the word “security” would subject them to the licensing requirements of the act.

WRT "Do churches need security at all?"

Well, yes. It is like much of crime -- the chances that you will be attacked at any given time or place, church included, are not all that high, but it does happen to someone, and when it happens to you or your church, the consequence is grave.

A gentleman named Carl Chinn has built a website and (it looks like) a consulting business around this. I know nothing of him other than what I see on the website, but he does list violent attacks in churches for a long period of time.

[SewTexas]

why does a church need security?

let's see, my car and another were broken into on Easter Day in CO Springs a few years back, they took a piece of junk mail and our garage opener then went to our house and had fun, they knew where we were and how long they had.

next, remember I said CO Springs, remember church shootings? it was a CHL holder who stopped the guy, OK she was a paid security guard, but it could have been anyone...'cause apparently there they don't have this nonsense...after this our church started hall walkers and we didn't have to have security licenses, we just had to do it, church didn't care if we were CHL or not, although they knew that most of us were.

[ELB]

... OK she was a paid security guard, but it could have been anyone...

A small nit. When Jeanne Assam countered the shooter at the New Life Church, she was a member of the church and a volunteer on the church's security team. She had been a police officer in the past, a federal security officer, an unarmed parole officer, and apparently a paid security guard elsewhere, but not at the Church.

I bring this up because many press accounts at the time referred to her as a "security guard," even after it became clear she was in fact a private citizen with a concealed handgun license acting as a volunteer. It almost seemed designed to avoid any good press for an armed citizen.

Ironically, the church also employed local police officers as paid security during services... but they had all departed since their shift ended when services ended. Jeanne said she stayed because so many people were hanging around afterward, and that is when the killer struck.

A further irony, I think, is that had she been a paid security guard, Colorado Springs city ordinance would have restricted here to carrying a revolver -- semi-autos were not allowed. Thus, as a CHL carrier and volunteer, she was better armed with her Baretta than should would have been as a paid guard. C-Springs was said to be considering changing their ordinance after that, but I don't know if they ever did.

Which reminds me -- I have a .pdf of Jeanne Assam's police interview, which if I can figure out how to attach to a post, might make some interesting reading for those interested in church security. (Note -- she did not have a lawyer present for her statement. But it did not seem to be a hostile interview, either.)

[ELB]

Well, dang, Assam's police interview is too big to attach -- it is about 9MB.

If anyone is interested, PM me with your email, and I will send it to you . It used to be on the website of one a Colorado newspaper, but I forget which one.

[Dragonfighter]

Well, dang, Assam's police interview is too big to attach -- it is about 9MB.

If anyone is interested, PM me with your email, and I will send it to you . It used to be on the website of one a Colorado newspaper, but I forget which one.

Thanks to ELB for sending me the interview PDF. Here it is for download so we don't have to chew up his email bandwidth.

[ELB]

Dragonfighter, thanks for posting it.

It was part of a 500 page report on the shooting that the Colo Springs PD released to the public. One of the local newspapers got a copy of it and posted excerpts on line. The report was available to the public, but the copying fee was a dollar a page. Decided I wasn't that interested in the whole thing.