Homeowner Shoots Intruder

[txinvestigator]

txinvestigator, we can't determine that.
The homeowner probably couldn't either.

Can't determine what? You can't determine if you are willing to kill someone who is only taking your stuff? That is the question I made. It was not in reference to this particular burglary; it was made to Odin's comments.

When someone breaks into your home, they aren't there for iced tea.

Really? it could be the person with alzheimer's from the next street over who lives in the house just like yours, or the autistic teenager.....on and on. Although deadly force is justified to prevent a burglary, I would not do so unless I believed my or my family's life were in danger.

I might draw on the person and order them to the ground and gunpoint. If they comply then I don't have the trauma to my family of a violent death in my home. (Have you seen the aftermath of shooting someone?) I have saved a potential grand jury appearance and the associated costs. I avoided a potential civil trial.

If they run away I have achieved the same objectives.

However, if they do not comply or I believe my family is at risk, then I would shoot.

If someone broke into my home, I would feel as if my life were in jeopardy and shoot.

Good. With that predetermination you are less likely to hesitate if you are forced to use deadly force.

But should you not consider the above, also?

[txinvestigator]

Is personal property worth a life???

That's not a question that we can answer because we aren't criminals.

That is a question that only a criminal can ask himself..."is this person's personal property worth my life?"

I think the question is, "are you willing to take the life of someone who is ONLY taking your stuff?" I, for one, am not.

Please assemble all of your firearms into one pile, I will be over tomorrow.

Sorry, all of my firearms were lost in a tragic boating accident......

[GlockenHammer]

txinvestigator, we can't determine that.
The homeowner probably couldn't either.
When someone breaks into your home, they aren't there for iced tea.

If someone broke into my home, I would feel as if my life were in jeopardy and shoot.

I liked your signature you used to have..."If someone breaks into your house, they ain't there for tea." I agree with your sentiment. If someone is breaking into your house to steal your stuff, they will do it while you are away. When they break in while people are there, I would assume they have intentions for the persons in that habitat, and it probably ain't to have tea with them.

If I come home and someone is in my house and I know it is empty, I'll back off and call the cops without firing a shot.

You go, Venus.

[flintknapper]

edit

[Odin]

Is personal property worth a life???

That's not a question that we can answer because we aren't criminals.

That is a question that only a criminal can ask himself..."is this person's personal property worth my life?"

I think the question is, "are you willing to take the life of someone who is ONLY taking your stuff?" I, for one, am not.

I don't have a crystal ball so that question is impossible for me to answer before shooting. I can assure you that I am not going to engage an intruder in my home in a conversation regarding his intentions.

My house is locked, both when I'm inside and when I'm outside. Anyone not invited in to my house is an intruder. If I encounter an intruder in my house I will draw down on him and order him to the ground.

If he doesn't comply and is passive I will hold him at gunpoint until the police arrive.

If he doesn't comply and attempts to flee I will either (a) attempt to physically restrain him or (b) let him go, depending on the circumstances, although letting him go is a very slight chance.

If he doesn't comply and resists, acts aggressive, or makes a move towards me I will use whatever force I feel is immediately necessary to cause him to cease his actions.

I am armed. I am willing and prepared to use deadly force to stop an intruder in my house from doing anything that I feel may possibly cause me or other occupants of my house any harm. The fact that an intruder is inside my locked house automatically puts me in immediate fear for my safety. The intruder will be the only person in that situation who will decide whether or not I use deadly force, and his decision will be made by his actions. I will not wait until an intruder takes some action that is a flagrant attempt on my life before I use deadly force to stop his attack. The intruder raised my response on the force continuum when he feloniously broke into my secured residence. He made the choice, he will have to deal with his decision and the consequences.

All that said, the odds that an intruder will ever enter my locked residence while anyone is home is so slight that I don't waste any time worrying about it.

[seamusTX]

My house is locked, ... Anyone not invited in to my house is an intruder.

That's an important point. It eliminates hypothetical questions about drunk neighbors, delivery people, etc.

A kid is (presumably) sitting in prison right now because he broke into his grandparents' home and beat them to death. The motive was robbery.

- Jim

[Skiprr]

A tangent, but speaking of adolescents and robbery, here is an article from today's Houston Chronicle:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4315348.html

The whole series of armed robberies as described presents a chilling scenario.

[Odin]

My house is locked, ... Anyone not invited in to my house is an intruder.

That's an important point. It eliminates hypothetical questions about drunk neighbors, delivery people, etc.

I know my neighbors, but only as associates, we are not close friends. I don't know everything about them. If a drunk neighbor somehow got in my house I would treat them different from an unknown intruder in that I would talk to them about why they were there rather than simply order them to the ground at gunpoint, although the fact that they managed to get past a (presumably) locked dorr concerns me. But I would not be completely at ease regarding their intentions. Most homicide victims were killed by someone they knew, not a stranger. I don't know what drama led them to get drunk and come into my house and I sure don't want to be involved.

I would hope that a delivery person wouldn't wander in uninvited. Maybe out in the country, maybe years ago, but not today in the D/FW metroplex.

I read the paper every day, and whenever I read about an intruder coming into a house in the middle of the night when people are home it seems like more often than not the intruder is either (a) a disgruntled acquaintance of the homeowners or (b) there to take drugs or money that they know the homeowner is secreting. Rarely is there a story about a burglary to an occupied home where the victims and the offender are total strangers.

Burglars tend to be cowardly, even in the criminal hierarchy. If they weren't so cowardly they would probably be robbers, not burglars. Burglars tend to prefer unoccupied structures, and residential burglars tend to operate in the daytime (as opposed to business burglars, who operate at mostly night).

When I'm home and when I'm away I keep all doors locked. I have a dog in the house. I don't keep drugs or large sums of money at home, and I don't have any baby mama drama going on in my life, so the odds of an intruder coming into my house while I'm home are very slim. If it happens I think I'm prepared to deal with it, but it doesn't seem likely.

I'm more concerned that I could come home during the day (I sometimes work different hours and can be home day or night) to find an intruder either in my house or find the house has been burglarized. In that case I would call 911 and observe the best I could until the police arrived. There are too many guns in my house for me to go barging in there if I think an intruder might be in there. I don't want to get shot with my own guns after startling a burglar.

[txinvestigator]

My house is locked, ... Anyone not invited in to my house is an intruder.

That's an important point. It eliminates hypothetical questions about drunk neighbors, delivery people, etc.

I know my neighbors, but only as associates, we are not close friends. I don't know everything about them. If a drunk neighbor somehow got in my house I would treat them different from an unknown intruder in that I would talk to them about why they were there rather than simply order them to the ground at gunpoint, although the fact that they managed to get past a (presumably) locked dorr concerns me. But I would not be completely at ease regarding their intentions. Most homicide victims were killed by someone they knew, not a stranger. I don't know what drama led them to get drunk and come into my house and I sure don't want to be involved.

I would hope that a delivery person wouldn't wander in uninvited. Maybe out in the country, maybe years ago, but not today in the D/FW metroplex.

I read the paper every day, and whenever I read about an intruder coming into a house in the middle of the night when people are home it seems like more often than not the intruder is either (a) a disgruntled acquaintance of the homeowners or (b) there to take drugs or money that they know the homeowner is secreting. Rarely is there a story about a burglary to an occupied home where the victims and the offender are total strangers.

Burglars tend to be cowardly, even in the criminal hierarchy. If they weren't so cowardly they would probably be robbers, not burglars. Burglars tend to prefer unoccupied structures, and residential burglars tend to operate in the daytime (as opposed to business burglars, who operate at mostly night).

When I'm home and when I'm away I keep all doors locked. I have a dog in the house. I don't keep drugs or large sums of money at home, and I don't have any baby mama drama going on in my life, so the odds of an intruder coming into my house while I'm home are very slim. If it happens I think I'm prepared to deal with it, but it doesn't seem likely.

I'm more concerned that I could come home during the day (I sometimes work different hours and can be home day or night) to find an intruder either in my house or find the house has been burglarized. In that case I would call 911 and observe the best I could until the police arrived. There are too many guns in my house for me to go barging in there if I think an intruder might be in there. I don't want to get shot with my own guns after startling a burglar.

You have made my point. You would not automatically just shoot someone who was in your house. You have a thought process that you would put into place.

Smart, I think.

[TxRVer]

Sorry, all of my firearms were lost in a tragic boating accident......

I doubt that. The lakes around here don't have enough water for your firearms to be lost of even get your boat out there.

I appreciate your view on the use of deadly force. You've made very thoughtful statements and your training shows in what you said.

Personnally I think anyone that breaks into a house at 2:00am should expect the same results. It's a shame that a 19 year old life was snuffed out, but I hope the only fate the shooter suffers is the personal pain of knowing a life was taken.

[Odin]

You have made my point. You would not automatically just shoot someone who was in your house. You have a thought process that you would put into place.

Smart, I think.

Like you, I would never "automatically just shoot someone". I've not shot anyone yet and I hope that I never do shoot anyone. The odds are greatly in my favor, and I do a lot of things that minimize risk to myself. I'm not talking about being armed, but about situational awareness and keeping myself out of places and situations that have a greater potential to go wrong.

I don't want to hurt or kill anyone. I don't want to end up in court. I just want to live my life without being victimized, and so far (excepting the 5 auto burglary/thefts that I endured in the 90's when I lived in Dallas) I've done very well. My gun is simply a tool that's there for a worst case scenario, although I also enjoy shooting very much. I spend much more time worrying about my next bass fishing tournament than I do about intruders in my house.

[seamusTX]

I read the paper every day, and whenever I read about an intruder coming into a house in the middle of the night when people are home it seems like more often than not the intruder is either (a) a disgruntled acquaintance of the homeowners or (b) there to take drugs or money that they know the homeowner is secreting. Rarely is there a story about a burglary to an occupied home where the victims and the offender are total strangers.

It's true most of the time that murderers and victims know each other.

A separate category would be rapes. In many of those cases, the rapist followed the woman home or has been stalking her.

- Jim

[Odin]

I read the paper every day, and whenever I read about an intruder coming into a house in the middle of the night when people are home it seems like more often than not the intruder is either (a) a disgruntled acquaintance of the homeowners or (b) there to take drugs or money that they know the homeowner is secreting. Rarely is there a story about a burglary to an occupied home where the victims and the offender are total strangers.

It's true most of the time that murderers and victims know each other.

A separate category would be rapes. In many of those cases, the rapist followed the woman home or has been stalking her.

- Jim

True. Being a man, I never really thought about defending myself against a rapist, but for women that's a very real threat. Women are a smaller percentage of CHL holders but are more likely to actually need a firearm for defense. But I also think that women would be better served by improving their situational awareness than anything. I routinely see too many women alone in public who have a "victim" look about them.

[seamusTX]

Me, too. It drives me nuts. I don't feel I can say anything, because they might take it the wrong way.

- Jim

[Skipper5]

I hope the homeowner doesn't have to deal with any civil charges. I imagine it's very unnerving to have your home invaded during the night, but to have to deal with civil charges would add insult to injury.
Unfortunately, a large segment of our society believes that you should never, under any circumstances, shoot a minor.

All the more reason for the 'Castle Doctrine' to get passed in TX....at 2:00AM in the morning; those (unfortunate- but real) kids weren't over for a cup of tea!
Sad situation; but the Doctrine would cover the homeowner in such a case.
IANAL //John