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Re: question about a firearm's use as CW
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:18 pm
by hirundo82
Keith B wrote:Carrying of any weapon other than a handgun with a CHL is a UCW charge.
NOTE TO ADD: While 46.02 speocifies handgun, but not long gun, I am sure you would be charged with UCW and the Judge would more than likely agree.
What would they charge you with? According to §46.02:
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club [snip]
Nowhere in the penal code is carrying a long gun, either with or without a CHL, prohibited (ETA--except in the places mentioned in §46.03, where all firearms are prohibited).
Re: question about a firearm's use as CW
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:24 pm
by hirundo82
ELB wrote:Legally speaking, I am doubtful this would really fall under your CHL -- I think the CHL statutes pretty clearly deal with handguns. Is there a law against carrying a concealed rifle, shotgun, or AOW? Dunno, no time to research.
No law against carrying a rifle or shotgun, open or concealed. The AOW distinction doesn't exist in Texas law.
I'm not sure what something like the Serbu Shorty would be considered--I think the most likely possibility is that it would be considered a short-barreled shotgun, but I could also make an argument for considering it a handgun under Texas law ("any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand"). If an AR-15 pistol, with a reciever originally designed for a rifle but built with a short barrel and no stock, is considered a handgun under Texas law, why shouldn't a shotgun reciever with the same characteristics be the same way.
Re: question about a firearm's use as CW
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:25 pm
by RAM4171
http://www.internet-d.com/2010/03/17/ta ... -magnum-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Like this
Not a 12 gauge but 28 gauge is pretty tough one handed I would think.
Re: question about a firearm's use as CW
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:56 pm
by ScottDLS
hirundo82 wrote:ELB wrote:Legally speaking, I am doubtful this would really fall under your CHL -- I think the CHL statutes pretty clearly deal with handguns. Is there a law against carrying a concealed rifle, shotgun, or AOW? Dunno, no time to research.
No law against carrying a rifle or shotgun, open or concealed. The AOW distinction doesn't exist in Texas law.
I'm not sure what something like the Serbu Shorty would be considered--I think the most likely possibility is that it would be considered a short-barreled shotgun, but I could also make an argument for considering it a handgun under Texas law ("any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand"). If an AR-15 pistol, with a reciever originally designed for a rifle but built with a short barrel and no stock, is considered a handgun under Texas law, why shouldn't a shotgun reciever with the same characteristics be the same way.
I think you nailed it. There is no AOW classification in Texas law. Certain (federal) National Firearms Act classified AOW's may fall under the definition of a "zip gun", though my take on the Serbu is that it would either be a "short-barreled firearm" or handgun. If you have a CHL, it doesn't really matter...
If it's a handgun then your CHL provides a 46.15 (non-applicability) defense to prosecution. If it's NOT a handgun, then you are not breaking the (UCW) law by carrying it, as 46.02 doesn't prohibit it, any more than it prohibits carrying a pencil.
I asked the same question some time ago about carrying my MAC10/9 machine pistol. Under federal law, it is a machinegun. Apparently under Texas law it is not a handgun, despite being (arguably) pistol sized and concealable.
There is supposedly case law supporting this for someone who was carrying a machine pistol pre-CHL and was acquitted at appeal, when it was determined that his gun was not a handgun, therefore not subject to 46.02, any more than a rifle would be.
Still, it doesn't matter. It's either a handgun and you can carry it w/ your CHL, or not and you can carry it anyway.
Re: question about a firearm's use as CW
Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:04 pm
by cpmann
Thanks for the good discussion on this....I have posed this question to DPS...lets see what they have to say about it.....
Notwithstanding the practically of carrying such a weapon as the serbu shorty, I think that it is legal, based on the affirmative defense of having to get NFA paper on this......somewhere in section 46 i think it touches on prohibited weapons and the defenses to same......will look at it a little closer......
I do already have a Judge and it doesn't recoil more than any .45 I have shot previously.......and for close quarters shooting I like it because I can cover an entire doorway with the shot spread @ 10 feet.....it is the gun I keep in the house for the wife to use when @ home.....if she does not have her CHL gun on her......
one thing to remember about the shorty is that it is factory made with a PISTOL grip....I can and have shot my 12 gauge with one hand.....not a pleasant experience, but I can do it.......I think it does get down to the semantics......
thanks for your thoughtful feedback.....
Re: question about a firearm's use as CW
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:02 am
by zero4o3
hirundo82 wrote:ELB wrote:Legally speaking, I am doubtful this would really fall under your CHL -- I think the CHL statutes pretty clearly deal with handguns. Is there a law against carrying a concealed rifle, shotgun, or AOW? Dunno, no time to research.
I'm not sure what something like the Serbu Shorty would be considered--I think the most likely possibility is that it would be considered a short-barreled shotgun, but I could also make an argument for considering it a handgun under Texas law ("any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand"). If an AR-15 pistol, with a reciever originally designed for a rifle but built with a short barrel and no stock, is considered a handgun under Texas law, why shouldn't a shotgun reciever with the same characteristics be the same way.
While I see your point, on the Serbu, you could make the argument that it has a forward grip so was clearly not adapted for one hand fire
