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Another thing you could do is to make it so we can tag a location as 30.06 and if it is compliant/ non-compliant. I would be willing to go around and geo-locate places in San Antonio for your database.

Skaven wrote:Another thing you could do is to make it so we can tag a location as 30.06 and if it is compliant/ non-compliant. I would be willing to go around and geo-locate places in San Antonio for your database.

That's not a bad idea. I will add that to the list of things to look into. Thanks!

bzo311 wrote:I also have the CHL handbook in pdf format and can view it on my Android, but pdf is a bit slow on my device and finding what you're looking for can sometimes be a pain.

It's good that there is somewhat of competition out there, though. Thanks for the info.

"search" and "find in text" such as 30.06, it highlights all occurances of the search and the option to "go to next". PDF format of course. On my Blackberry, same as Adobe for windBlows.

Teamless wrote:

KaiserB wrote:that an establishment may post a 51% sign even though they are not required to by TABC to prevent concealed carry in the building

They can post it, its not enforceable
Also, I was at a place that had the 51% sign posted when it should not have been. I notified TABC, they visited them and made them change to the blue signs, and also fined them for having the wrong signs up, so I doubt whoever you spoke to knew what they were talking about

The person making the statement was the head of the TX DPS legal department. The statement was made during a CHL instructor class April 11-15 in answer to the question:

If a person goes to a restaurant/bar establishment, say a Hooters for the sake of discussion, that is known to be a less than 51% establishment per the TABC website and documents filed. This person sees a 51% sign which they know and can prove is posted erroneously are they banned from carrying there.

The first answer from the head of legal was I am sure they are a 51% establishment because they sell a lot of beer.

The reply was "I can show you the establishment on the TABC website which clearly demonstrates they are a less than 51% establishment"

The follow up answer was the 51% can be posted by any business and it has the same effect as the 30.06. They went on to cite GC §411.204 (b) as the basis.


Now personally I do not agree that one would get arrested etc should an establishment have a 51% sign up and not be a 51% establishment, however I was not going to argue further with the goob from legal.

KaiserB wrote:The follow up answer was the 51% can be posted by any business and it has the same effect as the 30.06. They went on to cite GC §411.204 (b) as the basis.

411.204 only provides the requirement to display the sign. But carry past a 51% sign is not an offense; the offense is carrying in a location the really IS a 51% and has the sign.

For those interested, a beta version is up if you have an Android. A "CHL" search on the market will pull it up.

I will be updating it regularly, adding some convenience features and responding to any feedback via these forums and comments in the market.

Thanks for the ideas many have provided, I will be looking into everything that deems reasonable.

downloaded will look for issues etc and let you know

I would use this app if you can get it done for Iphone.

KaiserB wrote:When I questioned the DPS legal department about the improper/erroneous 51% sign posting they told me that an establishment may post a 51% sign even though they are not required to by TABC to prevent concealed carry in the building (i.e. the erroneous 51% sign would function as a 30.06). Similar to hospitals posting a 51% sign under GC §411.204 (b):

One of the problems with asking cops about the law is that they are not as knowledgeable about it as they think they are. DPS is my preferred reference for questions about traffic laws, but only that. In this case, they clearly were unaware of any TABC rules or laws and were doubtful on the exact wording of the Penal Code.

The two tricks are that the Penal Code defines the prohibited place as illegal based on TABC's decision, not on the signage or what they really are (TABC can be wrong and it would still be illegal) and that TABC has laws on what signs can be posted. The Alcoholic Beverage Code has a section requiring places to post the blue sign if they do not meet the Government Code section requiring the red 51% sign. So, if they are a licensed premise for alcoholic beverages, they cannot post the wrong sign legally (yes, there really might be an illegal sign ).

But if they are not a licensed premise, then DPS is correct and they can post any sign they want but it is not legally enforceable (not illegal to place though).

The real fine reading of the law would say that the hospital that posted the red 51% sign, instead of the sign with the same wording but without the red 51, was also not posting the proper sign. It technically would not have served to give proper notice that the place was off limits, even if the law had not been changed to require the 30.06 sign. And in a real twist of the law, every hospital and nursing home is currently required to post a non-enforceable sign. Government Code 411.204 has never been repealed, requiring the off limits sign. If a hospital decides to allow CHL's in, they just do not post the 30.06 sign but still have to post that old off-limits sign. If they do want to ban CHL's, they must post both signs to be strictly legal, even though just posting the 30.06 would ban the CHL's.

Isn't the law fun?

Skaven wrote:downloaded will look for issues etc and let you know

Thanks! Today I am going to take a serious look at database reporting so we can build, or add to, a good list of 30.06 businesses/locations. That feature really interests me.

srothstein wrote:

KaiserB wrote:When I questioned the DPS legal department about the improper/erroneous 51% sign posting they told me that an establishment may post a 51% sign even though they are not required to by TABC to prevent concealed carry in the building (i.e. the erroneous 51% sign would function as a 30.06). Similar to hospitals posting a 51% sign under GC §411.204 (b):

One of the problems with asking cops about the law is that they are not as knowledgeable about it as they think they are. DPS is my preferred reference for questions about traffic laws, but only that. In this case, they clearly were unaware of any TABC rules or laws and were doubtful on the exact wording of the Penal Code.


Isn't the law fun?

The law is great :) I realize the problems with asking a DA or police officer about the law. In the end it all comes down to the statements you make to avoid arrest and/or the statements you make on behalf of your defense. I think the majority of judges would toss the case based on the improper posting of a TABC establishment. He with the most documentation generally wins :)

I downloaded and installed the CHL app. I have not had a chance to really look into it, but I like what I have seen so far.

Would it be possible to add a state reciprocity list? I'm not talking about states that we have unilateral agreements with, like NY and CA, just the states that have reciprocals with TX.

How about a map with red dots to show places with 30.06 or 51% signs as well as the ability say press a button to mark a GPS location as banned, now this could be problematic if the anti's got ahold of it and started to flag everything as banned. BTW I loaded it on my my-touch 4G and it appears to be working good, now I have a reason to carry this phone as after I bought it the wife took it over.

suthdj wrote:How about a map with red dots to show places with 30.06 or 51% signs as well as the ability say press a button to mark a GPS location as banned, now this could be problematic if the anti's got ahold of it and started to flag everything as banned. BTW I loaded it on my my-touch 4G and it appears to be working good, now I have a reason to carry this phone as after I bought it the wife took it over.

Well, at the moment I am developing a solution for users to send and receive information to a web database so we can add, sort and view a list of businesses / places that are 30.06 or 51%. And don;t worry, I will have a report button so there is a user-based level of moderation per entry just in case those pesky anti's get ahold of it.

I just installed it on my HTC Incredible. Works as advertised. Good job!