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I believe that marriage should come before sex.

Although I agree with most of the caveman tenets in the list, the embracing
of the above comment is more hypothetical and hypocritical than accurate.

Yes, we all know that surveys can be flawed due to intentional dishonesty or
a flawed methodology, but consider this one:

A survey of married couples in the US revealed that only 7% had abstained from
marital relations prior to the actual marriage.

A full 93% had done the deed prior to their marriage vows.
I'm sure the 93% were OK with it because their relationship was the "special" kind.

SIA

I'm with SIA...I agree with most of the aforementioned ICM tenets. The sex before marriage thing is probably accurate, even if the exact numbers are off...especially in the younger generations.

The other one I disagree with, I would likely edit to read, "I don't believe that any marriage between two consenting adults can have any repercussions on the sanctity of any other marriage."

But I realize that my opinion on that pretty much totally flies in the face of the ICM ideology. If that keeps me from getting a membership card, so be it.

FWIW, I consider it a glowing testament to the people on this board that I'm willing to state the above, because many other boards that have members with similar interests would have me e-shunned for my opinion. Here, we can respectfully agree to disagree.

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:I believe that marriage should come before sex.

Although I agree with most of the caveman tenets in the list, the embracing
of the above comment is more hypothetical and hypocritical than accurate.

Yes, we all know that surveys can be flawed due to intentional dishonesty or
a flawed methodology, but consider this one:

A survey of married couples in the US revealed that only 7% had abstained from
marital relations prior to the actual marriage.

A full 93% had done the deed prior to their marriage vows.
I'm sure the 93% were OK with it because their relationship was the "special" kind.

SIA

SIA, I see your point. I don't necessarily agree with you and here is why.

I believe in the caveman list. I am, however, a mortal and a sinner.
I fall short of living up to that list, more often than I should. That doesn't change my belief in those ideals or my willingness to continue to strive from them.

Let's use a different example:

The truth is always better than a lie.

I totally believe that. I just fall short.

I guess what I'm saying goes along the lines of the old saying that "it is better to aim at perfection and miss than to aim at imperfection and hit." I think that the idea behind the OP was to state what those principals were and that some with whom he had had discussions completely dismiss those concepts. Further, they offered scorn for him for believing in them.

Let's make it relevant. I believe in the 2nd Amendment in the context of the Declaration of Independence. The right to bear arms does not come from the government. I believe that this is a principal that many would attribute to the overall caveman approach. They relate it to a caveman mentality because the government has elected to regulate guns to the point of elimination in some cases and they believe that this is an "enlightened" approach which is some how morally superior to the intent behind the Declaration of Independence. Many of those same people don't believe in the sanctity of marriage. This is not a matter of pre-marital activity but is a moral judgment that marriage is a passe concept. In other words, if you believe in marriage, your thinking is Neanderthal. To me, it appears part and parcel of a line of thinking that I believe is moral decay. Others believe it is enlightenment and that I'm caveman. So be it.

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:I believe that marriage should come before sex.

Although I agree with most of the caveman tenets in the list, the embracing
of the above comment is more hypothetical and hypocritical than accurate.

Yes, we all know that surveys can be flawed due to intentional dishonesty or
a flawed methodology, but consider this one:

A survey of married couples in the US revealed that only 7% had abstained from
marital relations prior to the actual marriage.

A full 93% had done the deed prior to their marriage vows.
I'm sure the 93% were OK with it because their relationship was the "special" kind.

SIA

I picture the insensitive cave man clubbing the cave woman and dragging her back to his cave.

Ameer wrote:

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:I believe that marriage should come before sex.

Although I agree with most of the caveman tenets in the list, the embracing
of the above comment is more hypothetical and hypocritical than accurate.

Yes, we all know that surveys can be flawed due to intentional dishonesty or
a flawed methodology, but consider this one:

A survey of married couples in the US revealed that only 7% had abstained from
marital relations prior to the actual marriage.

A full 93% had done the deed prior to their marriage vows.
I'm sure the 93% were OK with it because their relationship was the "special" kind.

SIA

I picture the insensitive cave man clubbing the cave woman and dragging her back to his cave.

That makes them married, right?