30.06 Sign

[WildBill]

I keep falling back on the fact that the Sarge here over the state troopers in my county telling me he would arrest anyone caught carrying past a no-gun sign, whether 30.06 or not.

When I hear things like that said, I would tend towards calling or writing a letter to the appropriate people at DPS in Austin. Many times the people at the state level are unaware that someone at local level is not well-trained or in compliance with state law. I have yet to meet someone at the top levels of an organization who have not welcomed the opportunity to correct a wrong when they have suffered the dismay of learning of it.

Like it or not, sign or no sign, law or no law, an LEO can arrest any person if they really want to. Unfortunately, that is life.

[wgoforth]

I keep falling back on the fact that the Sarge here over the state troopers in my county telling me he would arrest anyone caught carrying past a no-gun sign, whether 30.06 or not.

When I hear things like that said, I would tend towards calling or writing a letter to the appropriate people at DPS in Austin. Many times the people at the state level are unaware that someone at local level is not well-trained or in compliance with state law. I have yet to meet someone at the top levels of an organization who have not welcomed the opportunity to correct a wrong when they have suffered the dismay of learning of it.

Actually, I did call the CHL Licensing office of the DPS in Austin... I even wrote a thread about it in this forum... She, the manager of the office, informed me that if they have any non-gun sign then you are not to carry..... Keep in mind that the Legislature wrote the bill, not the DPS...

[WildBill]

I keep falling back on the fact that the Sarge here over the state troopers in my county telling me he would arrest anyone caught carrying past a no-gun sign, whether 30.06 or not.

When I hear things like that said, I would tend towards calling or writing a letter to the appropriate people at DPS in Austin. Many times the people at the state level are unaware that someone at local level is not well-trained or in compliance with state law. I have yet to meet someone at the top levels of an organization who have not welcomed the opportunity to correct a wrong when they have suffered the dismay of learning of it.

Actually, I did call the CHL Licensing office of the DPS in Austin... I even wrote a thread about it in this forum... She, the manager of the office, informed me that if they have any non-gun sign then you are not to carry..... Keep in mind that the Legislature wrote the bill, not the DPS...

I am all for informing the various level of department managers of lapses in procedure and protocol. It is a good idea, not only for LEOs, but for all government agencies.

[sugar land dave]

What about the "or" just before part "B". Doesn't that mean section A or B? As in one or the other, which could therefore mean that a sign with just section A would be enough of an effective notice? I ask because my dad read this from the DPS website and brought it up to me during a debate he started by saying I couldn't carry to church, in which I proved him wrong. But he brought up a valid point to me when he mentioned the "or" when he asked what signs could stop me from carrying.

Card or other document is not a "sign." If they were the same thing, it would be superfluous and conflicting to have a section A and B. A card is akin to a business card. A document could be a letter, pamphlet, brochure, or other handout handed to you as you enter or mailed to you if your arrival for an event was anticipated.

[Winchster]

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:

Here's my opinion. I think you would/could get arrested, and since you were a jerk and "pretended" not to have to obey the "sign" since it wasn't "perfect", you could very easily be arrested/charged. I say this because, IMO, the law clearly says "card or other document, that has the language only in english, no requirement for spanish or 1 inch letters etc. I think they could make an argument that the "sign" you saw might be defined as "other document". You know what the intent of the "sign" is, and they are making their wishes known, and it is their property. Give over, go somewhere else to do your business. How would you feel if your "no solicting" sign was ignored on a daily basis because it was misspelled? It's your property and the intent is crystal clear.

This is just my opinion of course.


I was in the process of typing this when sugar land dave made his post.

[sugar land dave]

I do not think of the CHL office as "the appropriate people" for personnel training matters. A possible place to start would be here: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I am sure the people at the link would have a good idea of how to proceed.

They may blow you off, or thy may turn out to be real public servants. You don't know unless you try. No matter which, the seed of an idea might be planted.

[speedsix]

"...since you were a jerk...", huh? Bud, how does following the law make one a jerk??? Law is for US...law is for THEM...and I reckon all the CHL instructors have been teachin' us all wrong, then...I suggest if you HAVE a CHL, it'd be a great idea for you to know your rights...my first instructor was a legislator who helped WORD the 30.06...and get it passed...I think I'll stick with his opinion...
...if the LAW specified the wording of a No Soliciting sign, it'd be the same thing...the sign would be done right or it would be non-enforceable...how many "Slow" signs have you stopped at lately...and how'd ya like to get a ticket 'cause you didn't???
Would you be a jerk, then??? You sound like "them" more than you sound like "us"!!!

...30.06(b) is explained in in (3) below...defining "written communication"...and the "or " between (A) and (B) differentiates between two forms of written communication...the second one (B) being a sign...the first one (A) being something handed to you or printed on a ticket you tender or mailed to you with your reservation or the like...NOT a sign...

[Winchster]

If you want to make it personal then I can give as well as anyone. That being said, you don't know me or my views on virtually anything. Being a jerk is quite simply being a guy that takes a ruler out to check the letter height. You are correct in that the sign is not technically enforceable, however, why push the issue. If everything else is correct? Why do you wish to patronize a place of business that doesnt like you or what you believe in? Do you have enough money to hire the attorney? Is it going to go over well at your place of employment that you were arrested and sat in jail? Can you afford to sit in jail and miss work? How's that gonna work out for your family? Shouldn't they be your first obligation? Is there no other place to conduct the exact same business elsewhere in town that supports our constitutional rights? Do you REALLY want to be a test case for some up and coming DA with a thing against Chl holders? Again, none of this may ever happen to you but You sound like somebody that wants to push the envelope. You're probably the guy that gets told "don't cross this line" and you leave one toe on the side you were supposed to then claim you didn't REALLY cross it because your whole body didn't make it across. Just sayin...

[wgoforth]

If you want to make it personal then I can give as well as anyone. That being said, you don't know me or my views on virtually anything. Being a jerk is quite simply being a guy that takes a ruler out to check the letter height. You are correct in that the sign is not technically enforceable, however, why push the issue. If everything else is correct? Why do you wish to patronize a place of business that doesnt like you or what you believe in? Do you have enough money to hire the attorney? Is it going to go over well at your place of employment that you were arrested and sat in jail? Can you afford to sit in jail and miss work? How's that gonna work out for your family? Shouldn't they be your first obligation? Is there no other place to conduct the exact same business elsewhere in town that supports our constitutional rights? Do you REALLY want to be a test case for some up and coming DA with a thing against Chl holders? Again, none of this may ever happen to you but You sound like somebody that wants to push the envelope. You're probably the guy that gets told "don't cross this line" and you leave one toe on the side you were supposed to then claim you didn't REALLY cross it because your whole body didn't make it across. Just sayin...

Waiter...check please.......

[bigmoney]

"
...30.06(b) is explained in in (3) below...defining "written communication"...and the "or " between (A) and (B) differentiates between two forms of written communication...the second one (B) being a sign...the first one (A) being something handed to you or printed on a ticket you tender or mailed to you with your reservation or the like...NOT a sign...

Good point there. that's the kind of thing i was looking for, since i keep seeing things about 30.06 and effective working, that or brought the question, but that sums it up. I really hate law mumbo jumbo

[speedsix]

...a guy who follows the letter of the law is not a jerk, he's a good citizen...and it's nobody's business if or why I or another CHL might want to go into a business which had made a poor attempt at posting...things are either legal or they're not...and if they're legal, you can do them...that's America...and it doesn't make you a jerk...I don't care to know you or your views, just responding to your post...which, I assume, shows us your views...and just because you'd handle it a different way, doesn't make a man who follows the letter of the law a jerk...and THAT'S what makes it personal...your post is full of timidity and fear and I'm a free American and won't live that way...you have the right to be that way if you want and worry about "what if"...but don't call us jerks because we stand up and live by the written law...this ISN'T a police state and we ARE free men...with your absurd "cross this line" accusation, you'd probably be ALL upset to know you can stick your head in a schoolhouse door and still not be on the premises...unless your whole body's inside...there's that pesky LAW again...prolly a lot to be afraid of there, too..."making it personal" is when you have to call someone else a jerk to try to add weight to your uninformed opinion...and YOU made it personal...unnecessarily so...

[flintknapper]

There is also intent in the sign so if its close ...

I don't know what you mean by this statement.

I have no intention of taking a ride, except in my own vehicle. The legal requirements of a 30.06 sign are very specific for a very good reason. If the sign doesn't have the exact wording, in English and Spanish and is not of the proper size required by law, then it is not enforceable. Period.

It might also be helpful to carry a small printed copy of the penal code. Not for the purpose of "contesting" the arrest, but hopefully to provide some info the LEO might not be aware of. You always risk going to jail for "contempt of cop" this way, but you're really not out anything for trying to be reasonable.

If an arrest seems imminent, you can try requesting a supervisor, it might cause the LEO to reconsider.

[Winchster]

In all actuality six I am the guy that would do exactly that at a school because I AM the guy that will do exactly what I accused you of doing about crossing the line. You misunderstood my jerk comment and in all fairness I didn't make my definition very clear. I'm not timid, I will be the first to follow the letter of the law if not the spirit lol. I push all the time. I was making my last post as an example of a debate. I apologize for making it personal if you took I that way. I do however believe all the reasons that I gave about being a patron of a worthless business. You are correct in that we don't live in a police state, and should walk as free men. To me, that means freedom to not do business in a kill zone. I haven't been in a 30.06 posted place of business other than a hospital since the law went into effect. And I only recently got my CHL.

[speedsix]

...so you posted something you don't believe, called us jerks when now you feel the same way about it???? right...well, at least you know what you get when you pull my chain...

[wgoforth]

Winchester.. I'm sorry but calling us jerks was the only way to interpret your sentence structure of what was said. I was ready to write the mods and ask them to step in.