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I won't even fly to hawaii..I'll WALK!!!

Sick. I wish our state government would stand up to this with a real bill. . . not just grandstanding.

i8godzilla wrote:

schufflerbot wrote:while i hate that this poor woman had to endure what she did, i have to say - i can somewhat understand where the TSA is coming from.

we live in turbulent times, without a doubt and with all the attempts by fanatic groups to take innocent lives, we're starting to understand that there are 'no holds barred' when it comes to acts of violence. how many stories of women and children loaded up like pack mules with high explosives and detonated have you read?

if they discover a way through, they'll exploit it.

i agree with you guys who are saying that the TSA is sending a message... i don't think that message is intended for us, though - i think it's directed toward any would be wrong doers.

If you think for one minute that TSA has or is going to stop a terrorist threat at the airport, IMO you have way too much faith in the out of control government. TSA is for show.

TSA has no control over who boards an airplane in another country....... An airplane bound for the U.S.......... I'm just sayin'.

About the only control, if any, that TSA has over flying terrorists is over those of the home-grown variety, and those foreign born like the 9/11 hijackers, who boarded their planes in the U.S. after entering the country. But that hen has already flown the coup. TSA might be able to prevent a repetition of that kind of attack, but they can't prevent the one for which a new methodology has been developed that hasn't been used yet. This is why they are now going to be interfering with your right to board a train or a bus unmolested, and it is just a matter of time before they can molest you while driving your car. Isn't big government using your safety as an excuse to put you under their thumb a wonderful thing? Pretty soon you won't be able to go to the toilet without a prostate exam courtesy of the TSA on the excuse that you might be trying to sneak an explosive device into the sewer system.

They could make this problem go away simply by allowing ALL passengers to carry a good knife on board. After what we the flying public have had to put up with over the past 10 years courtesy of the TSA, I would think that passengers are so angry at terrorists that they just might cut a terrorist's throat in a nanosecond as soon as he started getting uppity with the flight crew.

TSA has pretty much outlived its usefulness, and now it is nothing more than just another giant federal bureaucracy trying to justify its existence. Time for it to go.

The Annoyed Man wrote:
TSA has pretty much outlived its usefulness, and now it is nothing more than just another giant federal bureaucracy trying to justify its existence. Time for it to go.

I can name a whole bunch of Federal Bureaucracies that meet that description. When was the last time you ever saw a single one go?

(Start with the Agriculture Department. May have been useful when there were private farmers -- Think Hank Kimball on Green Acres -- but ALL farming is now big business (or somebodies backyard garden). They don't need no Federal help anymore!)

sjfcontrol wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:
TSA has pretty much outlived its usefulness, and now it is nothing more than just another giant federal bureaucracy trying to justify its existence. Time for it to go.

I can name a whole bunch of Federal Bureaucracies that meet that description. When was the last time you ever saw a single one go?

(Start with the Agriculture Department. May have been useful when there were private farmers -- Think Hank Kimball on Green Acres -- but ALL farming is now big business (or somebodies backyard garden). They don't need no Federal help anymore!)

That doesn't mean that it isn't time to go. Those others are just overstaying their welcome.

schufflerbot wrote:we live in turbulent times, without a doubt and with all the attempts by fanatic groups to take innocent lives, we're starting to understand that there are 'no holds barred' when it comes to acts of violence. how many stories of women and children loaded up like pack mules with high explosives and detonated have you read?

if they discover a way through, they'll exploit it.

i agree with you guys who are saying that the TSA is sending a message... i don't think that message is intended for us, though - i think it's directed toward any would be wrong doers.

I've read none...how about some sources? And like pack mules no less....are you serious? Let's make it easy: just give us some sources describing how Israeli women and children have been loaded up like pack mules with explosives and blown themselves up along with their families.

Also, please explain how "terrorists" are going to load up a 95 year old American woman like a pack mule with explosives and she and her daughter aren't going to notice; and how they're going to load up children and babies with explosives without the parents knowing? Oh, honey, the baby got poo poo all over the C4 someone left in his diaper. Or are you saying Americans are going to voluntarily load up like pack mules and blow themselves and their families up on airplanes? These are truly amazing grannies too because apparently being loaded up like a pack mule with explosives doesn't even make them nervous, much less break out in a sweat like I'd be doing.

And please explain the message this is sending to the wrong doers, 'cause to me the only message it seems to be sending them is "you won."

philip964 wrote:As casual observers of the screening process, we have all seen elderly people and children singled out for extra inspection. If they have lax inspection of those groups, the TSA is afraid that elderly people or children will be used by terrorists to smuggle bomb making materials on to planes.

If the TSA really does believe in this possibility, then the procedure they're following is criminally negligent, since if someone really was carrying explosives they planned to detonate on an airplane, the moment they got picked out for screening, the bomb would be detonated --either by the person carrying it or by remote control. The fact that they take no precautions for this possibility tells you that they think the chance of it happening is zero, and therefore, the chance they're really looking for explosives in grandma's diaper is zero.

b322da wrote:

philip964 wrote:As casual observers of the screening process, we have all seen elderly people and children singled out for extra inspection. If they have lax inspection of those groups, the TSA is afraid that elderly people or children will be used by terrorists to smuggle bomb making materials on to planes.

However, it seems the real target group that the terrorists should try as their couriers is the part of the population who are younger single males, traveling on one way cash tickets, with foreign passports, who appear muslim in dress or looks. Due to the appearance that it would be discriminatory to examine them, this group seems to get the least examination of all classes of airline passengers.

I must assume that you have a citable and genuinely credible source for your unqualified statement of fact I emphasized above. May we see it? If not, I must assume you do not have one, but sure as the world in this cyber-age your statement will be in turn quoted, "but I saw it on the Internet."

Elmo

Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab

See I'm not the only liberal with huge issues with the TSA this outrage seems to be one of the few things we can all agree on.
http://bcove.me/71mtdkjg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Keith Olberamann Countdown

loadedliberal wrote:See I'm not the only liberal with huge issues with the TSA this outrage seems to be one of the few things we can all agree on.
http://bcove.me/71mtdkjg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Keith Olberamann Countdown

Well, even a busted clock is right twice a day.

If you think for one minute that TSA has or is going to stop a terrorist threat at the airport, IMO you have way too much faith in the out of control government. TSA is for show.

Exactly correct -- TSA is a waste of resources. Their failure rate of 70% doesn't assure me any -- I fly frequently and have inadvertently and successfully brought knives through security beaucoup times.

The only real security is the willingness of the passengers to beat the snot out of any "terrorist" on a flight.

I find it incredibly telling that literally once a week or more we read of the TSA's dive to new depths of exploitation. What is going on here that we can see these things every week and yet those who hold the reins to the TSA (congress/president), have barely gotten them to agree to limiting criminal level pat downs of small children. I hear our politicians making jokes about it--"ha ha ha take the train if you don't like pat downs"--that won't even be an option if TSA gets their way, but I do not hear them doing anything about it. TX state legislature is the notable exception, but even they only passed a watered down bill. If conservative, liberal, everyone hates these procedures why are they being allowed to continue.

mamabearCali wrote:I find it incredibly telling that literally once a week or more we read of the TSA's dive to new depths of exploitation. What is going on here that we can see these things every week and yet those who hold the reins to the TSA (congress/president), have barely gotten them to agree to limiting criminal level pat downs of small children. I hear our politicians making jokes about it--"ha ha ha take the train if you don't like pat downs"--that won't even be an option if TSA gets their way, but I do not hear them doing anything about it. TX state legislature is the notable exception, but even they only passed a watered down bill. If conservative, liberal, everyone hates these procedures why are they being allowed to continue.

I've been trying to find out what changes were made to the bill to "water" it down. I keep hearing snippets on the radio, but no real explanation of the changes.

mamabearCali wrote: If conservative, liberal, everyone hates these procedures why are they being allowed to continue.

Because Federal bureaucracies of all stripe are NOT accountable to the people, even through our elected representatives. "They" have determined that they know what is best for us and there is no deterrence of the zealotry.

VMI77 makes an excellent point that I really hadn't thought through completely. If there really was the potential for explosives, the current procedures put every TSA worker at risk for a premature detention.

The whole TSA strategy is cut from the same cloth as the school zero tolerance. Innocent kids are punished and there is little effect on the real problem with guns or drugs in schools. When a incident is discovered that strains even the wildest stretch of credibility, it is easy for those in charge to claim that it is "policy."

chasfm11 wrote:

mamabearCali wrote: If conservative, liberal, everyone hates these procedures why are they being allowed to continue.

Because Federal bureaucracies of all stripe are NOT accountable to the people, even through our elected representatives. "They" have determined that they know what is best for us and there is no deterrence the zealotry.

VMI77 makes an excellent point that I really hadn't thought through completely. If there really was the potential for explosives, the current procedures put every TSA worker at risk for a premature detention.

The whole TSA strategy is cut from the same cloth as the school zero tolerance. Innocent kids are punished and there is little effect on the real problem with guns or drugs in schools. When a incident is discovered that strains even the wildest stretch of credibility, it is easy for those in charge to claim that it is "policy."

Have you noticed that they confiscate liquids, "because they might be components of an explosive mixture", and then cavalierly toss them into a big trash can? If the liquids were truly dangerous, don't you think they would have better and safer disposal methods than a big trash can? Especially one sitting right next to the security entry?