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Karl, if your professor wants to know what you used as sources, try to avoid saying "NRA" or "Gunfacts" . . . instead, take a look at Gunfact or NRA article references - see where they found THEIR facts - and check out those sources yourself. (Try to cite original sources whenever possible.)

In my mind, the biggest point to get across is the fact that gun legislation NEVER succeeds because:

1. "Gun legislation" is just passing laws.
2. Criminals, by definition, do not obey laws.

Therefore, gun legislation is purely the infringement of the rights of law-abiding citizens. Gun legislation does not apply to the very group it was meant to affect.

karl wrote:I have the fantastic opportunity to witness to a classroom full of malleable college students about the horrible problems of gun control today!

So how did it go?

In high school we had a mandatory speech class. Much of it involved extemporaneous speaking, where we were given a synopsis of a topic maybe five minutes before we had to speak.

At the time it was terrifying, but it served me well after I got over the jitters.

- Jim

I stressed the "criminals don't obey laws" point a lot. Many interested faces and many bored faces. I'll be honest, even if the topic is something I find interesting, everyone in that classroom just wants to leave.

I think I got a few votes for best persuader.

seamusTX wrote:

philip964 wrote:Remember ownership of all kinds of guns and rifles is illegal in Mexico.

I'm sorry, but this is not correct. Mexicans can legally own handguns up to .380 caliber, and some hunting rifles and shotguns.

The problem is that the registration process is so convoluted that anyone can be charged with violating it.

http://www.davekopel.com/espanol/Mexican-Gun-Laws.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course the semi-auto rifles, machine guns, grenade launchers, and other military weapons used by the narcotraficantes are completely illegal for civilian ownership.

- Jim

I thought it was up to a .38 caliber pistol. Forgive me if a .380 is the same thing, as I didn't think they were.

I don't know the details of Mexican law. I don't care. I just know that .380 (9 mm Corto) and some related lower-powered handgun rounds are popular for sport shooting there.

As with most places, you can own anything if you get away with it or bribe the right people.

- Jim

Gun ownership is severely restricted in Norway, also, and we just saw what one criminal with a gun can do when he goes uncontested for an hour while the SWAT team waits for authorization to access their firearms.

In Norway, cops are unarmed but patrol officers have a gun in their patrol car. The gun is unloaded and in a locked case not readily accessible to the patrol officer. The officer must get authorization from his superiors before gaining access to the firearm. Norwegians are very proud of the fact their police are unarmed as they believe it makes their society more humane.

Their criminal justice system is also predicated on being humane to the offender, which is why Anders Breivik is looking at a relatively short sentence considering the number of people he killed. Under Norwegian law, the maximum prison sentence a person can receive is 30 years. There is no death penalty and no life imprisonment in Norway.

All of the above is true, but the very different situation in the U.S. and specifically Oklahoma did stop not Timothy McVeigh or many other terrorists. Bombers aren't stopped by people with handguns, and terrorists generally are not deterred by punishment. More often than not they get killed in their own exploits. They think they are going to whatever perverted of heaven they believe in.

The conclusion that I draw from these observations is that "gun control" has nothing to do with terrorism or lunatic killing sprees. It is specifically about the individual citizen dealing with non-political violent crimes such as robbery, rape, and burglary.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:All of the above is true, but the very different situation in the U.S. and specifically Oklahoma did stop not Timothy McVeigh or many other terrorists. Bombers aren't stopped by people with handguns, and terrorists generally are not deterred by punishment. More often than not they get killed in their own exploits. They think they are going to whatever perverted of heaven they believe in.

The conclusion that I draw from these observations is that "gun control" has nothing to do with terrorism or lunatic killing sprees. It is specifically about the individual citizen dealing with non-political violent crimes such as robbery, rape, and burglary.

- Jim

Very true, Jim. If the terrorist is willing and expecting to die he will do whatever he will. However, I'd argue that his choice of target (if a shooting spree and not a bombing) will take armed citizens into consideration because he will be able to commit more carnage in a gun free zone than he will in an area where citizens may be armed. The shooter in Norway may not have shot nearly as many people as he did if someone were armed and able to engage him in the hour it took police to arrive. Note that he surrendered immediately upon arrival of armed police.

Maryland 1,816 students suspended-bringing weapons to school- ---Hows that sign and law workin out fer you?
So-called gun control is "imaginary control" when it comes to lawbreakers.

http://t.co/RBp5LT4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kythas wrote:However, I'd argue that his choice of target (if a shooting spree and not a bombing) will take armed citizens into consideration because he will be able to commit more carnage in a gun free zone than he will in an area where citizens may be armed.

This is true for terrorists who are not completely reckless berserkers.

However, in Israel and other Mideast countries, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc., where there is a strong likelihood of armed intervention, they just use bombs. Bombs have always been a favorite terrorist tool, going back to Guy Fawkes.

While we are on the subject, there are a few places on earth, China being one, where criminals and would-be terrorists find it difficult to acquire firearms. There they use knives very effectively. China has had an epidemic of lunatics stabbing little kids in schools.

- Jim

karl wrote:Thanks Jim. The Google is being put to work.

ahem...its googleS :)

Unfortunately, gun control requires the cooperation of all criminals who would use a firearm.