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Crossfire wrote:What the heck is the topic "Handgun Use"?

And where is the time for Chapter 46 and 30.06? If students "sign" an online affidavit saying they have read and understood those, wouldn't you think they would be required topics?

I suspect the four topics on the CHL-100 are very abbreviated versions of the four mandatory topics identified in 411.188:

411.188 wrote:(b) Only a qualified handgun instructor may administer a handgun proficiency course. The handgun proficiency course must include at least 10 hours and not more than 15 hours of instruction on:
(1) the laws that relate to weapons and to the use of deadly force;
(2) handgun use, proficiency, and safety;
(3) nonviolent dispute resolution; and
(4) proper storage practices for handguns with an emphasis on storage practices that eliminate the possibility of accidental injury to a child.

OK, so if "Handgun Use" covers "(2) handgun use, proficiency, and safety;" then why do we also have a separate area to record time for "Proficiency Training"?

I still say this form was not well thought out.

Looking at the class requirements in GC §411.188, I thought it was pretty obvious the classroom section refers to (b) plus maybe the written test in (d)(1) and the proficiency section refers to any hands on training on the range plus maybe the shooting test in (d)(2) if testing time is counted as instruction time.

I'll alittle confused myself as well...

garcia946 wrote:I'll alittle confused myself as well...

Does this help?

Let me refrase it. Confused on classroom times section . I suppose ill get it done once I start using it ... I know its a new form....
Just have all the same concerns as everyone else....

Fellow CHL Instructors,

I am having to now decide time allocation, although these are obviously not taught in strictly in "blocks" - we do sometimes talk about "the law" and "safety" at the same time.
I am interested in how other instructors are allocating time and filling out form.

Taking in to account breaks are included in time, this is my preliminary draft for my minimum time classes:

ORIGINAL
USE OF FORCE (INCL LAWS): 1 HR 30 MIN
SAFE STORAGE: 1 HR 0 MIN
NON-VIOLENT DISPUTE: 1 HR 0 MIN
HANDGUN USE: 2 HR 0 MIN

3 OPTIONAL AREAS:
INTRO, REVIEW, TEST: 2 HRS 0 MIN
ALCOHOL, POLICE INTERACTION: 1 HR 0 MIN
Q&A, GUN INSPECTIONS, ALL OTHER: 1 HR 0 MIN

TOTAL CLASSROOM: 9 HR 30 MIN

RANGE: 30 MIN

TOTAL TIME: 10 HRS 0 MIN

RENEWAL
USE OF FORCE (INCL LAWS): 0 HR 30 MIN
SAFE STORAGE: 0 HR 30 MIN
NON-VIOLENT DISPUTE: 0 HR 30 MIN
HANDGUN USE: 0 HR 30 MIN

3 OPTIONAL AREAS:
INTRO, REVIEW, TEST: 1 HRS 0 MIN
ALCOHOL, POLICE INTERACTION: 0 HR 30 MIN
Q&A, GUN INSPECTIONS, ALL OTHER: 0 HR 30 MIN

TOTAL CLASSROOM: 4 HR 0 MIN

RANGE: 30 MIN

TOTAL TIME: 4 HRS 30 MIN

thanks,
seconds

seconds wrote:I am having to now decide time allocation, although these are obviously not taught in strictly in "blocks" - we do sometimes talk about "the law" and "safety" at the same time.
I am interested in how other instructors are allocating time and filling out form.

How about teaching the class like you normally do and then fill out the form honestly.

boba wrote:

seconds wrote:I am having to now decide time allocation, although these are obviously not taught in strictly in "blocks" - we do sometimes talk about "the law" and "safety" at the same time.
I am interested in how other instructors are allocating time and filling out form.

How about teaching the class like you normally do and then fill out the form honestly.

How about rereading his post and focusing on the fact that few if any instructors teach in subject matter blocks. Good instructors often work in topics when opportunities present themselves in questions from students.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Good instructors often work in topics when opportunities present themselves in questions from students.

Then the answer can change with each class so the time to decide what to put on the form is after the class, when he knows how much time he spent on each topic. Assuming we want instructors to answer honestly. I know I do.

I would honestly need a secretary to keep track of exact amounts. From the CHL Instructor class I took earlier this year, DPS is as interested in "the letter" of the law as "the spirit." There has to be some rounding of these - I assume no one is going to say "I spent exactly 1 hour and 17 minutes on gun safety." That is silly. DPS wants to know that we are serious about the 4 topics they consider important, and over half of my class is spent on it. Exactly how much time is very hard to determine!

** Just as interesting to me, though, is what other instructors are entering on those 3 tiny lines for other topics.

I too want to do this "right" and "honestly" but there are limits to this in the real world.

It would be interesting if DPS started surveying students to ask how much time they thought was spent on each subject.

boba wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Good instructors often work in topics when opportunities present themselves in questions from students.

Then the answer can change with each class so the time to decide what to put on the form is after the class, when he knows how much time he spent on each topic. Assuming we want instructors to answer honestly. I know I do.

Are you a CHL Instructor?

It's not possible to keep tract of the time spent without keeping a note pad and disrupting the class by making time entries every time the subject changes due to a question or a teaching opportunity. Your answer ignores the reality of the classroom.

Chas.

My concern is that, even though we have not been given time requirements for each topic (at least not that I recall), that DPS will use this form in a punitive fashion if they feel we are not giving enough time to the required elements.

Safe storage and handgun use (if that means handgun fundamentals) are taught as one section in my class. As Charles says, now I have to keep a notepad to figure out how much time I spend on each. Sometimes it is 30 minutes, sometime 90 minutes. Depends on the experience level of the class. I save "Use of Force" for last, so that I can talk about it as long as I need. If the class has been running long, I will still cover all of Chapter 9, but if it is running early, I can add a lot of material to that. So, again, maybe an hour, maybe 2 and a half.

And, since I have been printing the CHL-100s while the class eats lunch, I will have to figure out how to do this now, if I am to accurately fill in the time slots. Maybe they have to wait around after class while I print them up? Maybe I mail them to students after the class? Or, I just put down what I have on my outline, and refuse discussion if we run over time, or get off topic.

Charles - I thought you told us that DPS was working to make processess easier for instructors. What happened with that?

Crossfire wrote:My concern is that, even though we have not been given time requirements for each topic (at least not that I recall), that DPS will use this form in a punitive fashion if they feel we are not giving enough time to the required elements.

Safe storage and handgun use (if that means handgun fundamentals) are taught as one section in my class. As Charles says, now I have to keep a notepad to figure out how much time I spend on each. Sometimes it is 30 minutes, sometime 90 minutes. Depends on the experience level of the class. I save "Use of Force" for last, so that I can talk about it as long as I need. If the class has been running long, I will still cover all of Chapter 9, but if it is running early, I can add a lot of material to that. So, again, maybe an hour, maybe 2 and a half.

And, since I have been printing the CHL-100s while the class eats lunch, I will have to figure out how to do this now, if I am to accurately fill in the time slots. Maybe they have to wait around after class while I print them up? Maybe I mail them to students after the class? Or, I just put down what I have on my outline, and refuse discussion if we run over time, or get off topic.

Charles - I thought you told us that DPS was working to make processess easier for instructors. What happened with that?

I agree. I am also concerned about counting the break periods as instruction time for specific sections on an official form. That just feels like making a false entry on a government form. In fact, any "estimation" of class time or its classification into particular subjects would also be subject to false entry.