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68Charger wrote:

C-dub wrote:

BrianSW99 wrote:My opinion is, if the shooting is clearly justified, particularly if it falls into one of the categories that are justified by default like robbery, burglary, etc, then it won't matter whether you're on pain killers or not. They might could possibly come back and get you on carrying while intoxicated, but I think that's very unlikely if you're not acting intoxicated while you're talking to the officers.

If the shooting is more iffy, the level of pain killers in your system is more likely to be a factor in determining whether your actions were justified.

Brian

What are the two big questions LEOs ask? Have you been drinking and have you taken any illegal drugs? You can actually answer "No" to both of those. Let the lawyers sort the rest out and I hope Brian is spot on with his opinion because it is also mine.

I have chronic back pain as well due to an accident in my early 20's. I occasionally take Vicodin, but the drug that really gets me through the day would be my Tramadol. Just keep that prescription bottle near you at all times for it might come in handy.

68Charger hello!! Why do you think that you should keep the bottle handy? Tramadol is a controlled substance. If a situation arises that you would need to use deadly force then I would not want anything on or about me that is
a controlled substance. If what you did is legal than leave it at that. If they wanted to do a urine screen on you and it was positive then you will have the opportunity to divulge that you have Rx for it. Why confuse an
already confused situation with a bottle for tramadol? Same goes for Vicodin!! If I had to protect myself or my family by using deadly force then that far outweighs anything that I may be taking
by Rx.

Chuck

RockingRook wrote: Tramadol is a controlled substance.

Sorry, but according to the DEA's list of Controlled Substances ( http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/sched ... _alpha.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )
Tramadol is not a controlled substance, though some states, such as Kentucky, regulate it statewide - Texas is not one of them.

Wayne

n5wd wrote:

RockingRook wrote: Tramadol is a controlled substance.

Sorry, but according to the DEA's list of Controlled Substances ( http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/sched ... _alpha.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )
Tramadol is not a controlled substance, though some states, such as Kentucky, regulate it statewide - Texas is not one of them.

Wayne

No reason for apologies, if it is not a controlled substance fine but what I wrote is about controlled substances. Is Vicodin a controlled
substance? If it is should we keep a prescription bottle handy in case we have to use our weapons? My point was you really do not want
a Rx on or about your person. Is this wrong?

Chuck

Are you talking about something that require a prescription versus a narcotic? To be taken legally, both do require prescriptions, but the narcotics are more closely regulated.

RockingRook wrote:

n5wd wrote:

RockingRook wrote: Tramadol is a controlled substance.

Sorry, but according to the DEA's list of Controlled Substances ( http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/sched ... _alpha.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )
Tramadol is not a controlled substance, though some states, such as Kentucky, regulate it statewide - Texas is not one of them.

Wayne

No reason for apologies, if it is not a controlled substance fine but what I wrote is about controlled substances. Is Vicodin a controlled
substance? If it is should we keep a prescription bottle handy in case we have to use our weapons? My point was you really do not want
a Rx on or about your person. Is this wrong?

Chuck

Yes, Vicodin (Hydrocodone and its derivatives) is a narcotic and is a controlled substance.

What you DON'T want is a non-labeled bottle containing what looks like a pill, that draws the attention of the officer who looks in his handy-dandy pocket reference guide and sees that the pill is a Vicodin. At that point, if you can't convince him that you have a prescription for the narcotic, you have a problem.

Carry a bottle or little container and a copy of the Rx is, IMHO, a good idea. It's available to DPS anyway (the Rx has to be from a DEA numbered physician in the first place, and they (DPS) keep track of narcotic Rx's).

I took some for about two weeks when I fractured my leg about two years ago. I told the doctor I didn't want to take it unless I needed it and he gave me 10mg tabs and told me to cut them in half if I wanted less. 5mg did nothing, Advil worked better. I took the whole 10mg tab and I could feel the difference. It helped take the edge of the pain but I could clearly tell I was impaired and did not drive while taking the stuff four hours after ingesting it. After 4 hours the effects would wear off but I figured that if I thought that I was impaired to drive I probably shouldn't handle a firearm. Same goes for any alcohol with me, if I have even one beer or 1 mixed drink I don't even mess with my firearms at home. They stay locked up or on my nightstand and loaded but I don't touch firearms when my judgement is impaired. This is just what I do and I know others have different limits but I set zero tolerance with myself with any drug or alcohol. Just my 2 cents.

n5wd wrote: What you DON'T want is a non-labeled bottle containing what looks like a pill, that draws the attention of the officer who looks in his handy-dandy pocket reference guide and sees that the pill is a Vicodin. At that point, if you can't convince him that you have a prescription for the narcotic, you have a problem.

Carry a bottle or little container and a copy of the Rx is, IMHO, a good idea. It's available to DPS anyway (the Rx has to be from a DEA numbered physician in the first place, and they (DPS) keep track of narcotic Rx's).

Close, but not quite completely accurate. A Nurse Practitioner or Physician Assistant, with presciptive authority, a DPS license and a DEA license can also prescribe vicodin. We can prescribe III - V controlled substances. We can not prescribe schedule II substances that require a triplicate form. We are somewhat limited in that we can not write for refills on controlled substances. I have never considered this to be a limiter as a patient who requires that refill probably needs to come in and get seen to find out why the pain is not under control.

Tramadol (Ultram) is the newly minted mid-levels best friend. You can not prescribe controlled substances prior to getting your DEA license ($500). I prescribed a lot of Ultram in that period while I was waiting for my magic DEA paperwork to be approved. Ultram is a highly effective medication that may actually be added to the controlled substance list in the future. The only problem with it is that "some" people know it is not controlled, and therefore think it is not effective. They immediately add it to their list of "allergies" to avoid some goodheart Nurse Prac from accidently prescribing it for them. Good stuff, so do not turn up your nose at it, or think it is not potent and potentially altering if your provider prescribes it for you.

RJ

johnson0317 wrote:

n5wd wrote:(the Rx has to be from a DEA numbered physician in the first place, and they (DPS) keep track of narcotic Rx's).

Close, but not quite completely accurate. A Nurse Practitioner or Physician Assistant, with presciptive authority, a DPS license and a DEA license can also prescribe vicodin. We can prescribe III - V controlled substances. We can not prescribe schedule II substances that require a triplicate form.

Sorry, RJ, you're right. I forgot that PA's and NP's can prescribe some of the Schedule drugs. Mea culpa!

Slightly off-track... You do have to be under the supervision of a physician (who, I assume, is giving you the prescriptive authority), though, yes? Is that generally true for all aspects of your practice, or can y'all do most everything else independently?

I'm a member of the defenders program ( offered by Horsley Stewart out of Dallas)
They offer legal service in case you have to use your gun
When I joined I was told to say nothing at all to a LEO
if ??????? Get a lawyer and let them do all the talking.
Remember if your lawyer said something you didn't can claim my
lawyer put words in my mouth. This will give you a chance to backout
of a statement. If you say anything it sticks no back out. I'm not
a lawyer but this is how lawyers have explained it to me. Do your own research and
do not rely on what I just said

stephengauntt wrote:Do your own research and
do not rely on what I just said

stephengauntt wrote:I'm a member of the defenders program ( offered by Horsley Stewart out of Dallas)
They offer legal service in case you have to use your gun
When I joined I was told to say nothing at all to a LEO
if ??????? Get a lawyer and let them do all the talking.
Remember if your lawyer said something you didn't can claim my
lawyer put words in my mouth. This will give you a chance to backout
of a statement. If you say anything it sticks no back out. I'm not
a lawyer but this is how lawyers have explained it to me. Do your own research and
do not rely on what I just said

Exactly right!!

Chuck

n5wd wrote: Slightly off-track... You do have to be under the supervision of a physician (who, I assume, is giving you the prescriptive authority), though, yes? Is that generally true for all aspects of your practice, or can y'all do most everything else independently?

We have a collaborative physician who agrees to "supervise us". There has been, and will be again, attempted legislation to forego this rule in the future. Pharmacies are kind of funny, they tend to want to put your physician's name on the mid-level's Rx. They are not supposed to do this, especially with narcotics since the DEA does track those. I think it is secondary to an age-old battle for position where the pharmacist lobby wanted them to have the authority to prescribe, but did not get it. Granted, who knows more about drugs than your local pharmacist; however, who knows more about why drugs are prescribed in certain situations based on labwork, history, and a physical exam..not the pharmacist.

RJ

Off topic but most narcotics do not dull pain so much as adjust your attitude. When I broke both ankles 20 something years ago, I was given a decent dose of MS. The doc came in and asked me how I was doing and I told him, "Still hurts like the devil but I'm in a MUCH better mood." That satisfied him.

When we had toddlers we were introduced to Arnica. Derived from the Arnica Montana plant, the gels and creams applied topically reduce bruising and reduce or eliminate pain. There is internal pellets but the Arnica is in milk sugar so if you have lactose issues its probably not the best. For deep muscle you can apply the gel followed by DMSO to take it in deeper. When my wife and daughters were involved in a wreck recently, the drugs were not helping. We made tea from the raw Arnica and it was amazing (NOTE: Too much internal use can have toxic effects, you should learn the signs before you use the tea.).

I had gotten 3 fingers mangled by a circular saw and the pain and swelling was beyond anything they could prescribe, taking the internal Arnica made it tolerable. seriously, I've seen children with egg sized hematoma on their heads screaming, and playing within minutes after Arnica was applied with the knot almost non-existent. It has NO side effects and you don't feel it working, you just stop hurting. Your body processes it completely and you don't build a tolerance to it. IMHO it is one of the absolute best options for controlling chronic pain and expediting healing.

Its been used for hundreds of years, the Native Americans pulverized it and made it into a paste for a poultice, in the 19th century through the mid 20th century it was popularly used in a tincture. Little Women talks about it, it is mentioned in the movie "McClintock" and I remember John Daly talking about an Arnica Rub on "What's My Line?" after an apparently brutal tennis game.