TexasCHLforum.com

DJ Lovesicle wrote:I like the shoot through the window option but the particular bar I frequent has no windows.

Would opening the front door and shooting the the perpetrator while standing outside of the door frame and bar be legal?

Staying at home is probably the safest option but it's kinda of like letting the terrorist win.

How would it be like letting the terrorist win? To your knowledge, there would be no criminal activity at the bar. If you knew there was going to be criminal activity, you would just stay home and not go out seeking to save the world from active shooters. So in short, you wouldn't be letting anyone win but yourself, you would simply be avoiding a place that did not allow CHL due to 51% service.

To be honest, I have no problem with off-limit carry at 51% locations. Primarily because I don't frequent them. But secondly, I agree that guns and alcohol don't mix. Your argument is that you aren't drinking--I would ask why you were there then? There are too many other places you can visit that serve alcohol and are not 51% .. restaurants, etc.. There just isn't any reason to go to the bar.

snatchel wrote:.....
To be honest, I have no problem with off-limit carry at 51% locations. Primarily because I don't frequent them. But secondly, I agree that guns and alcohol don't mix. Your argument is that you aren't drinking--I would ask why you were there then? There are too many other places you can visit that serve alcohol and are not 51% .. restaurants, etc.. There just isn't any reason to go to the bar.

[/quote]

this is kind of getting off the original topic, but, I don't drink, and I sometimes go to 51% places. Why? Because one place close to home
has one of the best burgers & homemade fries baskets in town. Another serves up some dang good pizza. Another place has deeply discounted
food during Happy Hour. I drink iced tea and "pig out". I don't go very often, but when I do, the food and prices are exactly the reason.

The main reason that I would go to a 51% place is for the entertainment, local musicians in this area don't play at Olive garden, or Landry's if you want to hear the good local stuff you have to go to a 51% joint.

I don't know the answer,but I think you have a good question.The American Legion that I go to has dart tournaments,and those players are very serious and the majority of them do not drink alcohol.I could see how this could happen.I teach CHL and tell students that bottom line is,It all comes down to a jury to determine if you were justified.If I were on the jury,I would nominate you for mayor.

snatchel wrote:To be honest, I have no problem with off-limit carry at 51% locations. Primarily because I don't frequent them. But secondly, I agree that guns and alcohol don't mix. Your argument is that you aren't drinking--I would ask why you were there then? There are too many other places you can visit that serve alcohol and are not 51% .. restaurants, etc.. There just isn't any reason to go to the bar.

You know, when I was living in Ohio and testifying before the Ohio Legislature on getting Ohio's Restaurant Carry bill passed to allow concealed carry licensees to be in places with a liquor license, all the anti-gunners there used the exact same arguments, with even some of the same language.

It is just another variation on the overblown "there will be blood in the streets" rhetoric that anti-gunners have used before passage of "shall-issue" concealed carry laws in every state that went through that process. It didn't matter there was no truth to the argument, and blood in the streets never happened in any other state that passed the law.

Similarly, there are roughly 40 states that allow licensees in any liquor establishment -- restaurant or bar -- without notable issues. Take one look Texas CHL Conviction Rate reports to remind yourself how few problems are actually caused by CHL's. There is no doubt in my mind that were we to change the laws in Texas to allow CHL's into any establishment (restaurant or bar) that happens to serve liquor, CHL's would continue to conduct themselves lawfully.

It drives me crazy when supposedly gun-oriented people let themselves get splintered into factions on various gun-owner freedom issues. It is like when many shotgunners didn't see any issue with banning the so-called "assault" weapons back in the 90's. The right to self defense is a basic human right. I get it that you don't frequent 51% establishments, but what in the heck gives you the right to deny someone else the freedom to go where they choose and retain the right to self defense?

Even a motorcycle enthusiast, for example, who chooses to go into the worst biker bar imaginable still has a God-given right to self defense, and I would argue that he has greater need of it there than someone taking their family to the Olive Garden.

Personally, I do not think there is appropriate justification to create any "criminal protection zones" by making them statutorily off-limits to CHL's (except prisons).

"If we cannot hang together, we will surely hang separately".

Barstool, cold mug, fork, plate, towel, chair, table, pool stick, cue ball, darts, shuffleboard puck, empty hands, keys....

Who says you're unarmed in a bar. You only as unarmed as you are creative. If I was unarmed in a bar (which is only of I'm "out" for drinks), I'd go to one of those items before leeaving to grab a gun.

Greybeard wrote:http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.22.00.html

This...

Same goes for a school....
I pick my kids up at school.... I am armed...
If my kid forgets their jacket, they go back inside to get it while I stand outside.
If I arrive at school to find an active shooter inside, 9.22 says I'm justified out of "necessity" if I go in armed.

I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.

gigag04 wrote:Barstool, cold mug, fork, plate, towel, chair, table, pool stick, cue ball, darts, shuffleboard puck, empty hands, keys....

Who says you're unarmed in a bar. You only as unarmed as you are creative. If I was unarmed in a bar (which is only of I'm "out" for drinks), I'd go to one of those items before leeaving to grab a gun.

+1....a firearm is only a tool.

snatchel wrote: To be honest, I have no problem with off-limit carry at 51% locations. Primarily because I don't frequent them. But secondly, I agree that guns and alcohol don't mix. Your argument is that you aren't drinking--I would ask why you were there then? There are too many other places you can visit that serve alcohol and are not 51% .. restaurants, etc.. There just isn't any reason to go to the bar.

I don't go to church every Sunday, so I don't see any reason that people should be able to carry there. I mean why can't people just read their Bible at home?

Haven't been to the park in the while, so I am ok with this being restricted as well. I mean why can't people just walk around there own yard?

I haven't been to the gym in awhile, I am fine with these being restricted as well. There are tons of other ways to work out. Heck, get a treadmill at your house and you can even open carry.

...just pointing out the the logic used is a little flawed here. I have no problem if someone chooses not to go to these places, just as long as they don't try to make my choices for me.

I vote for keeping a rifle in your car does the law say anything about carrying a rifle into a bar?

srothstein wrote:Speedsix, that is hard to say. The MPA technically did not apply as soon as he left the vehicle with it. But since he did not ever get it concealed, it could go under either 46.02 or under 46.035.

But I do agree on the necessity defense either way.

Agreed.

Should work for you anywhere except maybe Austin.

I figured I'd draw some flak for my comments....

snatchel wrote:To be honest, I have no problem with off-limit carry at 51% locations. Primarily because I don't frequent them. But secondly, I agree that guns and alcohol don't mix. Your argument is that you aren't drinking--I would ask why you were there then? There are too many other places you can visit that serve alcohol and are not 51% .. restaurants, etc.. There just isn't any reason to go to the bar.

If the rule made sense, it would also apply to police when they're not on the clock. It doesn't so that proves to me, as someone who doesn't consume alcohol, that it's anti-CHL bunk and nothing more.

The same is true for the rule prohibiting CHL carrying in college buildings.

RoyGBiv wrote:

Greybeard wrote:http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.22.00.html

This...

Same goes for a school....
I pick my kids up at school.... I am armed...
If my kid forgets their jacket, they go back inside to get it while I stand outside.
If I arrive at school to find an active shooter inside, 9.22 says I'm justified out of "necessity" if I go in armed.

I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.

+1

snatchel wrote:I figured I'd draw some flak for my comments....

Well there are a lot of reasons, some mentioned, to be in a bar but not drinking. Bands, friends, date, special event, bored, only thing open, etc.