Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:23 pm
Support what part of my answer?UNTCHL12 wrote:Is there any kind of information in penal codes that support this...
Chas.
Chas.
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CHL Infringement?
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Chas.
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:37 pm
I've never used their gun range nor do I ever plan to, but maybe a well written letter might be in order.
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:09 pm
Here is a link to the Penal Code, Paragraph 30.06UNTCHL12 wrote: ... Also, forgive my ignorance, I thought if an establishment wanted to restrict the carrying of firearms on their private property, they still had to post signage i.e. The 30.06 bill. .
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... .htm#30.06" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And the text:
So, if they tell you to your face you can't carry a concealed handgun in their store, regardless of the exact words, then you have received notice. If they want to use a sign, it has to have the correct language, contrast, and size characteristics laid out in the law.Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
Like Mr. Cotton said, no way in blazes would I lock up my concealed carry piece, loaded or unloaded. I'd just holster it and walk out.
You can find any of the Texas Statutes by going here:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:39 pm
I carry something different if I want to shoot a regular carry piece.UNTCHL12 wrote:...because I had pulled the firearm out (clearly, Im at a shooting range) that I was required to lock it.
UNTCHL12 wrote:Has anyone heard of this?
How is it? And the issuance of your CHL was not in jeopardy as I read it. They simply restricted how you carry on THEIR propertyUNTCHL12 wrote:How is this not an infringement of my rights to having a CHL.
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:45 pm
I'm pretty sure the 30.06 still requires a sign to be posted
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:46 pm
I'm absolutely sure that oral notice is sufficient. 
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:52 pm
Perhaps you overlooked the "oral or written" part of the statute.UNTCHL12 wrote:I'm pretty sure the 30.06 still requires a sign to be posted
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:57 pm
Regardless of the notice I was given, How can you enter a property concealed, by have to leave not? That is the question I had. Everyone's posts have been helpful. I will keep yall posted. I plan to meet for clarification with the store manager tomorrow. If Basspro, A company that sells firearms, is going to restrict my right. I personally dont want to shop there anymore. The confusing part for me also, is that how is it that every other time myself and others have been there, no notice was given.
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:25 am
My thinking coincides with gigag. Once you pull your firearm out of concealment, could it not then be considered a range gun, and subject to range rules...ie locking it? If you carry something else in its place (concealed), I certainly don't think you have to declare that one.gigag04 wrote:I carry something different if I want to shoot a regular carry piece.UNTCHL12 wrote:...because I had pulled the firearm out (clearly, Im at a shooting range) that I was required to lock it.
I don't agree with what they had you do, just saying there are ways to avoid a repeat performance...
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:34 am
C-dub wrote:I doubt it's any kind of corporate policy. It's probably just some dingleberry manager trying to exert his own authority and warped sense of discipline against CHL's.Charles L. Cotton wrote:There is no such law in Texas.UNTCHL12 wrote:No I was informed this was a STATE LAW... and that they have to abide by it. Also, forgive my ignorance, I thought if an establishment wanted to restrict the carrying of firearms on their private property, they still had to post signage i.e. The 30.06 bill. Which allows private business to not allow concealed carry on their property. Are they allowed to just make up rules? where might I find that information? any penal code number would help.
A 30.06 sign is required only if a business wants to exclude armed CHL's. They can have their trigger lock rule if they wish. I wouldn't begin to put a trigger lock on a loaded pistol and I'm not walking out of any building with my gun unloaded, so we would have a problem. They couldn't stop me from leaving (false imprisonment, perhaps kidnapping), but they could refuse to allow me to enter again without installing the trigger lock.
I've never heard of this at Bass Pro and I hate to hear it now. I have a hard time believing it's a corporate wide policy.
Chas.
When I read the first few replies on this one, the same thought came to my mind...Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:13 am
Did you reholster before you left the shooting lane and re-entered the store area? I've never had an issue there...
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:37 am
Every time I have been to the Grapevine Bass Pro Shop to shoot, they make you lock any guns you are going to shoot at the range when entering. They don't do anything with your concealed weapon. Then as you leave the range they lock any gun you shot. They unlock them at the exit from the building. If you don't shoot your concealed carry, they don't touch it.
It doesn't matter whether you have a CHL or not. If you are going to shoot a gun at the range or bring one into their shop, they lock it.
If you are just carrying concealed, they don't bother you.
It doesn't matter whether you have a CHL or not. If you are going to shoot a gun at the range or bring one into their shop, they lock it.
If you are just carrying concealed, they don't bother you.
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:21 am
+1 with a variable. I always shoot more than one weapon when I go. They lock all of the guns in my range box but the concealed weapon remains, well, concealed. Once I am in the lane however, I discreetly pull my carry weapon, change to practice ammo and shoot it along with the others. Then reload defensive stuff, re-holster and leave. Never had a problem, maybe its the distraction of multiple weapons. If I ever have a problem, I'll not shoot the carry or switch it out for my BUG while I visit the range. I like the Bass Pro but it sounds like the OP got a booger.stroo wrote:Every time I have been to the Grapevine Bass Pro Shop to shoot, they make you lock any guns you are going to shoot at the range when entering. They don't do anything with your concealed weapon. Then as you leave the range they lock any gun you shot. They unlock them at the exit from the building. If you don't shoot your concealed carry, they don't touch it.
It doesn't matter whether you have a CHL or not. If you are going to shoot a gun at the range or bring one into their shop, they lock it.
If you are just carrying concealed, they don't bother you.
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:51 am
stroo wrote:Every time I have been to the Grapevine Bass Pro Shop to shoot, they make you lock any guns you are going to shoot at the range when entering. They don't do anything with your concealed weapon. Then as you leave the range they lock any gun you shot. They unlock them at the exit from the building. If you don't shoot your concealed carry, they don't touch it.
It doesn't matter whether you have a CHL or not. If you are going to shoot a gun at the range or bring one into their shop, they lock it.
If you are just carrying concealed, they don't bother you.
Before I had my CHL, they locked up every gun that I brought in. Since then, they ask me at the turnstile if I have a CHL. When I tell them that I do, they wave me in without locks. I haven't had a gun locked up there in the past year.
I haven't been shooting there in the past 30 days so the rules might have changed. I'll find out soon.
Re: CHL Infringement?
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:40 am
Some ranges will not allow you to pull out your concealed weapon and shoot it. If you are going to use it, it must come in the door unloaded and cased. When leaving, it must be unloaded. They will allow you to carry concealed, as long as you don't remove it from concealment.
Bottom line, it's a private business and it's their rules. And once you unconceal it, then 30.06 doesn't count. When you have remove the weapon from concealment, you have to follow their guidelines on how you take it back out of the range and the store. Common sense would be that if allowed to un-holster at the firing line and shoot it, then you should be allowed to re-holster and conceal the loaded gun before leaving the line, but they may have different guidelines. Hopefully the meeting with the manager will determine how they want you to do this with your concealed handgun and any other guns you may bring in to shoot.
Bottom line, it's a private business and it's their rules. And once you unconceal it, then 30.06 doesn't count. When you have remove the weapon from concealment, you have to follow their guidelines on how you take it back out of the range and the store. Common sense would be that if allowed to un-holster at the firing line and shoot it, then you should be allowed to re-holster and conceal the loaded gun before leaving the line, but they may have different guidelines. Hopefully the meeting with the manager will determine how they want you to do this with your concealed handgun and any other guns you may bring in to shoot.