Women in combat

[rthillusa]

What a nutty idea.

apologies for my long winded, erudite opinion, but I really can't think of an intelligent response to such an inherently stupid proposal. No offense to the ladies intended. We had way too many personnel issues as it was.

[JustMe]

MOST women don't WANT to do those things!! It is the result of a few radical femanistas(who never served!) that causes the type of reaction from men AND women as was demonstrated in a previous post

When I said that if a woman could do the job, she should be given the opportunity, I meant with a full understanding of all that was involved--but not that ANY woman should be compelled to.

When I was in, it was still considered unusal for a woman to enlist. Yes, I was called all sorts of names by civilians, and treated disrespectfully by some of the male service members. Women weren't allowed on ships or in any of the current fields they are now in.

But to blame women for a mans inability to have control over himself is ridiculous!!

[urnoodle]

But to blame women for a mans inability to have control over himself is ridiculous!!

Well said.

[jimlongley]

Based on my experience as a firefighter, I think women in combat roles is a poor idea.

That said, I think it will happen, and also based on my experience as a firefighter, women IN GENERAL because of specific individuals and instances, will prove to be capable.

Our biggest problem, as men, is that if we are not hard wired to be "gentlemen" and respect the fairer sex, leading to problems in combat, most of us are at least raised that way.

I almost suffered for hesitating when I was attacked by a WAVE while I was on Shore Patrol about a hundred years ago. The "lady" in question was about six foot six and weighed 245, and drunk as a skunk (and possibly on something stronger) she felt insulted when someone questioned her gender, and was busy tearing up the back of the bar in Newport RI. She was charging me from the other end of the bar when I started to pull my night stick, which stuck half way out of the holder, and the resultant poke in her gut looked like I planned it that way and dropped her like a sack of rice. I was glad it worked out that way, but it was not what I planned, I was just going to hold it in front of me as a blocking device. My partner was real impressed that I thought of that trick, and that I would use it on a woman.

OTOH, I have always had trouble controlling myself around both (either?) of my wives, and no one who ever knew them blamed me one bit.

[snatchel]

This is a hot subject... I'm glad that I have left the military.. But I still had to deal with this just a few years ago.

Women aren't allowed to do my job because of the risk involved, and we are regularly in combat. However, we were supported by female sailors, and that was a nightmare. Make no mistake, the male portion of the support force was almost as bad... but at least I didn't feel bad yelling at them.

We had one woman named S.S.. She was my biggest nightmare, ever. Not only was she knock-out gorgeous, but she used it to her advantage. I don't know how many times I had to get onto her, and the male's who would cater to her... and go home every night praying to God that I didn't get hit with a equal opportunity or sexual misconduct charge the next day.

One of my buddies is a Marine, a Gunny, and a firefighter. He is an instructor here at the base in our town, teaching young marines how to go about putting out fires and what-not. He found out that one of his students, an Air Force E2, was sleeping with 2 different instructors. He immediately snatched her, and the 2 instructors up into his office, and informed them that he was putting in paperwork to have them all relieved and dismissed from the military...and put them to work on meaningless tasks until they could be sorted out the next day. He put the female to work in the bathrooms, scrubbing the tile floors. He would go in and check in on her every few hours to make sure she was doing the work.. and then dismissed her at the end of the day to go home.The female student pulled the sexual harassment card the next day, saying that Gunny sexually harassed her while she was cleaning the head. Her reasoning behind this: Once the sexual harassment card is thrown, all charges against her would be dropped because they were brought on by the Gunny--regardless of the proof that he had.

6 months and a court martial later, the charges against him were dismissed and paperwork shredded. The 2 instructors were discharged from the military, as was the female E2. Yes, justice was served... but this convinced my buddy to separate last month.

I can go on and on with these stories... but the fact of the matter is the Military is a very male dominated force, subject to extreme conditions and discipline.. and the male/female dichotomy makes it difficult to mesh. We fought WWII without women in the armed forces... I think we need to go back to it. No offense to the women either.. I love women, my wife, and all they represent. Women make life in this world possible... we need them. I just feel that there are some places that women should not be....

[Oldgringo]

....to blame women for a mans inability to have control over himself is ridiculous!!

and well said!

[urnoodle]

The female student pulled the sexual harassment card the next day, saying that Gunny sexually harassed her while she was cleaning the head. Her reasoning behind this: Once the sexual harassment card is thrown, all charges against her would be dropped because they were brought on by the Gunny--regardless of the proof that he had.

There are many situations within society where the sexes use gender to manipulate an outcome. This is usually the exception and not the rule.

[Texas Dan Mosby]

But to blame women for a mans inability to have control over himself is ridiculous!!

No, it's biology.

That's what folks don't seem to understand. And it works both ways.

[JustMe]

all I can say is WOW--just WOW!! I bet some of the guys who have responded think "the little woman" doesn't need a gun either-and if she does, she can't handle a "real" gun!

To blame the precense of women on a mans inability to control his own actions is the same mentality that rapists and abusers have used for ever--"she had it coming"-"she deserved it"

I remember one incident were I was told to field day the mens head--"because I wanted to be a man"---but yet men didn't clean the womens head--"because it was the womens"-----that is the attitude that a lot of women in my time had to deal with.

the vast majority of women don't WANT to do all the different things that men do in the military and for sure they don't want to be men! Because of the attitudes of a few, the women will suffer more from this action than will benefit.

Fortunately MOST men in the military-and in life in general don't have such a misogonistic attitude toward women as has been demonstrated by a couple of the posts here.

And yes, I recognize the attitude----I've been married to a Marine for 37 years and raised 2 sons. I taught the boys that there was nothing I couldn't do "just because I'm a woman". There were things I chose NOT to do because I'm a lady (or in cases when they were trying to get out of something-because I am their mother!)

Equal doesn't mean identical!

[jimlongley]

all I can say is WOW--just WOW!! I bet some of the guys who have responded think "the little woman" doesn't need a gun either-and if she does, she can't handle a "real" gun!

To blame the precense of women on a mans inability to control his own actions is the same mentality that rapists and abusers have used for ever--"she had it coming"-"she deserved it"

I remember one incident were I was told to field day the mens head--"because I wanted to be a man"---but yet men didn't clean the womens head--"because it was the womens"-----that is the attitude that a lot of women in my time had to deal with.

the vast majority of women don't WANT to do all the different things that men do in the military and for sure they don't want to be men! Because of the attitudes of a few, the women will suffer more from this action than will benefit.

Fortunately MOST men in the military-and in life in general don't have such a misogonistic attitude toward women as has been demonstrated by a couple of the posts here.

And yes, I recognize the attitude----I've been married to a Marine for 37 years and raised 2 sons. I taught the boys that there was nothing I couldn't do "just because I'm a woman". There were things I chose NOT to do because I'm a lady (or in cases when they were trying to get out of something-because I am their mother!)

Equal doesn't mean identical!

I hope I'm not included in that first sentence, I taught both of my wives to shoot, and both daughters, and my first wife went on to be a NRA Certified Pistol Marksmanship Instructor and win her NRA Expert Rifle Marksmanship badge. My second wife came to my house while we were dating and when she saw my gun cabinet said, "I don't think I can live in a house with guns in it." and she now has her CHL and has fired perfect scores on her last two requals as well as acing the written test.

I may have been clumsy in what I was trying to say above, I do not think that there is anything a particular woman can not do due to her gender (with the exception of anatomical impossibilities, and that goes for men too) but that in my experience as a firefighter as women began to enter the front lines, and welcome too in the volunteer fire service because there are never enough PEOPLE, that some women excelled while others failed, which also happens to men, but that when women were involved at the fire or rescue, men tended to treat them as "the little woman" even if they were doing fine.

The same goes for observations in my long career as a "telephone man" and various jobs since then.

This is another one that just does not work well debating in print. I personally think that women belong any place they want to be, but that a combination of nature and nurture will always make some men act as "protectors" and reduce the overall effectiveness of the team, if not endangering others.

[Oldgringo]

But to blame women for a mans inability to have control over himself is ridiculous!!

No, it's biology.

That's what folks don't seem to understand. And it works both ways.

A truth well spoken.

[JustMe]

No, OG--you weren't the one I was particularly offended by! And I agree with you that womAn in particular is different than generalizing womEn as a whole.

And I think you hit the nail on the head with one comment you made--in the military, fire department(My dad was & brother is), police department and even in churches, one of the reasons more women are doing the non-traditional roles is that not enough males will man up!

I specifically went in the Navy to get the GI Bill(when it was the REAL GI bill!) to go to nursing school

[MadMonkey]

If you join the military, you should expect to be in combat even if you're a woman. If you joined thinking it would be a cakewalk to pay for your college... well, sorry. They can vote, they might as well fight.




Sorry, I just read Starship Troopers. Maybe it's made me a little cold and cynical

[Kythas]

20 years of service.

Infantry.

Women are a detriment to the force, not an asset, for two key reasons.

First, they are physically weaker and slower as a whole. Period. Don't blame me, blame God. Ladies, I love ya', I respect ya', but the fighting needs to be left to the boys. Period.

EVERY SINGLE strength, speed, and endurance record is held by males. This over all dominance is NOT exclusive to athletes. It is STUPID to draw from a gender pool that is physically inferior, when it comes to physical performance, and by lowering standards, the tax payer is paying more for less. It's hard enough getting males into shape, let alone females who start at a physical disadvantage already.

Weakness hinders the ENTIRE force. Those that slow down must be carried, or the ENTIRE force must slow down in order for the weak to keep up. Equipment that can't be carried must be cross-loaded among the force, increasing their already heavy burden. Not good. Leads to mission failure, casualties, and death.

Speed and strength can be the difference between life and death as an assaulter. The faster you can move, the longer you can move, and the more you can carry, the better your chances of completing the mission with fewer casualties. Sadly, the majority of the force doesn't understand this, because they don't have to do it, as most of the force serves in supporting roles. Non-serving citizens don't understand this AT ALL.

Second, and THE most important factor, cohesion.

Like it or not, females introduce sexual relationships into the equation, and ALL the issues that go with them. Love triangles, STD's, pregnancies, jealousies, all that bull hinders an organization simply because leaders and troops alike, have to DEAL with all that crap instead of DOING THEIR jobs. People can talk about being "professional" until they're blue in the face, but the reality of the situation is this: you can't control biology.

Males want females. Females want males. Period. Oh...except for homo's, which the force now has to deal with thanks to Obama and congress.

These crazy kinds of relationships can KILL morale, and hinder effectiveness. Amazingly enough, they are NON-EXISTENT in male only organizations. Go figure. This means we spent more time training, more time getting in shape, and more time focusing on the mission, and NO time dealing with "drama".

Except for closet homo's, NOBODY ever thought the PL was "hot", and NOBODY ever wanted to date a leader OR soldier, and not a single leader ever made advances on one of our assaulters. EVERY SINGLE service school I attended, that had females, introduced these ridiculous relationships, and I was always thankful for returning to my parent organization. Females were ALWAYS on the "sidelines" in EVERY physical thing we ever did, and contributed little to NOTHING to the over all success of any given task.

Of course, the tax payer paid them the same though...

I served exclusively in male only organizations until the end of my career, where I finally served in an organization that had female support troops. We NEVER had the ridiculous issues integrated organizations did, and it used to make me sick talking to my peers who had to deal with that garbage because it is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. The pregnancies before and during deployments, prostitution in the barracks or CHU's, "equal opportunity" complaints, office "drama", just straight up nonsense that is not appropriate for a military organization, and completely absent in male only units.

Females contribute absolutely nothing to the fight that a male doesn't already bring. The only thing they do is detract and inhibit the force as a whole. However, instead of facing the facts and adjusting personnel policy accordingly, the military will continue to focus on making the life of around 90% of the force miserable in order to accommodate the 10% that insists on playing Soldier.

And now they have the gay baggage to deal with as well.

My sympathies and condolences to all the assaulters out there...

As a former infantryman myself, what you say is 100% politically incorrect but 100% accurate.

As for gays, I'm on the fence. I have no doubt that gay men can physically perform the job of the infantryman. However, I have no experience in serving with openly gay men so I have no idea what kind of drama that would bring into the equation.

I do have a gay friend who has served in the Army honorably and well for the last 7 or 8 years. He was in the infantry, has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, has been a Drill Sergeant, and just two weeks ago earned his commission. The day after his commissioning ceremony his Facebook status was "Went drinking with my Captain last night to celebrate my commission. Is it bad that I think he's hot?" So, I can see the possibility of drama there.

As an aside, his Facebook status on this past Monday stated that he was in an airport and was spit on by a young woman and called a baby killer. I thought that went out of style after Vietnam.

[psijac]

Statiscally speaking a women in the service is more likely to be sexually assulted by other uniformed members then enemy combatants. One in five women in the military will be the victim of a sexual assult. Which is about the same ratio for a girl going to college.