Page 2 of 2
Re: North Texas Irish Festival...
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:28 am
by ScottDLS
cw3van wrote:RPBrown wrote:AEA wrote:More importantly why did the cop lie?
Did he lie because he is ignorant of the Law?
Did he lie because in his mind only cops should carry guns?
Did he lie because he is being paid to lie by the Promoter?
Nothing against the LEO's that actually do their job and know the Laws. Only talking about twerps like this one.
I think it is really a shame that we ALLOW this to happen.
We need someone, when accosted illegally this way, to immediately get a Lawyer to obtain a Court Order to the Promoter to obey the Law or shut the event down. Right then, no fooling around as we did with Fair Park in the past to get them Legal. And I would have got the Officers name and made a report to his Chief (maybe even thru the same Lawyer).
It's time we STAND UP for our RIGHTS! Stop hiding in the bushes!
He lied (1) because he was asked and (2) he didn't know the law
Sorry sir don't believe the officer lied he was asked at that point gave his answer oral or written notice is effective notice not to carry in the location. Not knowing the law I think we're all quilty of this with everyone having opinions as to what this or that means concerning CHL signs (etc) can be very difficult at best. These officers have a tough job not as easy as it may seem. That being said I would love too see some clarity concerning CHL laws. Every class I'm asked "can I be arrested for walking past a gun buster sign" the answer is yes arrest is not conviction but the ride has a price to pay loss of carry until case is disposed of attorney fees (etc). Not because I'm a retired LEO but I always obey police when they tell me something not because they know every law but because they can arrest me for not. Please understand I believe we have a right to carry under the 2A but folks we have a long way to go get some things cleared up.
Well maybe he didn't lie, because by most people's definition that would require intent to deceive, which we don't know if he had. But what we do know is that he was wrong. The sign did NOT provide written notice under 30.06 which is very clearly defined in the code. Even if it did, Fair Park is owned by the city of Dallas and therefore PC 30.06 does not apply. It says so quite clearly in the law...
PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
...
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
...
You'd think after almost 10 years, the news would have gotten out.
Re: North Texas Irish Festival...
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:29 am
by anygunanywhere
The biggest mistake here is that you asked.
Government owned they cannot keep CHL out.
Private owned and not 30.06 or 51% then good to go.
Pretty straightforward.
Why ask?
Anygunanywhere
Re: North Texas Irish Festival...
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:00 am
by cw3van
ScottDLS wrote:cw3van wrote:RPBrown wrote:AEA wrote:More importantly why did the cop lie?
Did he lie because he is ignorant of the Law?
Did he lie because in his mind only cops should carry guns?
Did he lie because he is being paid to lie by the Promoter?
Nothing against the LEO's that actually do their job and know the Laws. Only talking about twerps like this one.
I think it is really a shame that we ALLOW this to happen.
We need someone, when accosted illegally this way, to immediately get a Lawyer to obtain a Court Order to the Promoter to obey the Law or shut the event down. Right then, no fooling around as we did with Fair Park in the past to get them Legal. And I would have got the Officers name and made a report to his Chief (maybe even thru the same Lawyer).
It's time we STAND UP for our RIGHTS! Stop hiding in the bushes!
He lied (1) because he was asked and (2) he didn't know the law
Sorry sir don't believe the officer lied he was asked at that point gave his answer oral or written notice is effective notice not to carry in the location. Not knowing the law I think we're all quilty of this with everyone having opinions as to what this or that means concerning CHL signs (etc) can be very difficult at best. These officers have a tough job not as easy as it may seem. That being said I would love too see some clarity concerning CHL laws. Every class I'm asked "can I be arrested for walking past a gun buster sign" the answer is yes arrest is not conviction but the ride has a price to pay loss of carry until case is disposed of attorney fees (etc). Not because I'm a retired LEO but I always obey police when they tell me something not because they know every law but because they can arrest me for not. Please understand I believe we have a right to carry under the 2A but folks we have a long way to go get some things cleared up.
Well maybe he didn't lie, because by most people's definition that would require intent to deceive, which we don't know if he had. But what we do know is that he was wrong. The sign did NOT provide written notice under 30.06 which is very clearly defined in the code. Even if it did, Fair Park is owned by the city of Dallas and therefore PC 30.06 does not apply. It says so quite clearly in the law...
PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
...
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
...
You'd think after almost 10 years, the news would have gotten out.
.
Understand what you're saying don't disagree what i'm saying is a LEO can and in rare cases do arrest if they believe effective notice has been given. I hope that our legislature will correct this at some point. We have no punishment if you display an improper sign evrything is left in the gray area so everyone has opinions on it. I have a CHL instructor friend of mine tell me LEOs could not arrest if a proper 30.06 sign was not displayed he told his students the same thing. That's just wrong police can arrest if in the officers opinion effective notice has been given not to carry in the location. I hope one of his students does not resist an arrest because of the instructors words. Guys again I'm on your side on this but must tell my students that they can be arrested maybe not convicted don't know.
Re: North Texas Irish Festival...
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:16 am
by Gungirl
We need to be as aware as possible of the law then act in accordance. I would not ask an officer if I was allowed to carry, if I am unsure I would look up the law. Officers can often be unaware or have a personal bias. We would like to think all Leo's are good guys, but some are arrogant, blowhards. And some are actually criminal. It is best we know the law, then concealed is concealed.
Re: North Texas Irish Festival...
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:29 am
by SewTexas
we were actually planning on heading up to this, wanted to see Patrick Ball on Sunday....I know it's a long drive to see one performer
we were going to make a weekend of it...but the puppy woke up with and injured eye on Sat and there went the weekend
personally we wouldn't have asked. I'd done the research, knew it was at Fair Park, knew it was ok to carry, knew I don't drink, he drives up there, so no problem for either of us.
Re: North Texas Irish Festival...
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:36 pm
by Right2Carry
If ignorance of the law is no excuse, why doesn't that apply to both sides of the fence?
Re: North Texas Irish Festival...
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:48 pm
by bayouhazard
AEA wrote:More importantly why did the cop lie?
Did he lie because he is ignorant of the Law?
Did he lie because in his mind only cops should carry guns?
Did he lie because he is being paid to lie by the Promoter?
Nothing against the LEO's that actually do their job and know the Laws. Only talking about twerps like this one.
So the choices are gross incompetence, official oppression, and/or bribery.
At least nobody got shot.