Afghanistan

The Annoyed Man · Post by **The Annoyed Man** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:53 pm

Heartland Patriot wrote:I'm still not buying it, not in the least. This administration needs an excuse to pull our troops out IN A HURRY, instead of in the appropriate manner...I'm sure they would probably prefer it to happen before the election so they can make a claim of how great they are, don't forget to vote for them and all that...first we have the whole Koran thing and now this? Too blasted convenient for me, too blasted convenient by far. I put NOTHING past them to earn political capital, nothing. I'm telling you I smell a rat...if anyone thinks I'm off my rocker about this, I'm far too irritated to care...

That would be the same administration that requested that Israel—a sovereign nation—put off doing anything about attacking Iran's nuke program until after our elections......so I have no problem believing that they would do anything to nudge things in that direction. Never let a good crisis go to waste, as they say.....

Heartland Patriot · Post by **Heartland Patriot** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:27 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Heartland Patriot wrote:I'm still not buying it, not in the least. This administration needs an excuse to pull our troops out IN A HURRY, instead of in the appropriate manner...I'm sure they would probably prefer it to happen before the election so they can make a claim of how great they are, don't forget to vote for them and all that...first we have the whole Koran thing and now this? Too blasted convenient for me, too blasted convenient by far. I put NOTHING past them to earn political capital, nothing. I'm telling you I smell a rat...if anyone thinks I'm off my rocker about this, I'm far too irritated to care...
That would be the same administration that requested that Israel—a sovereign nation—put off doing anything about attacking Iran's nuke program until after our elections......so I have no problem believing that they would do anything to nudge things in that direction. Never let a good crisis go to waste, as they say.....

I know I kind of overdid it, but I guess the main thrust of my posting was what you clarified for me: political expediency. One of these days, my mouth is going to get me in some real trouble...amazing I made it through a career in the USAF, huh?

JustMe · Post by **JustMe** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:32 pm

my nephew is in Afghanistan right now with the 101st--he's a medic

Heartland Patriot · Post by **Heartland Patriot** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:42 pm

JustMe wrote:my nephew is in Afghanistan right now with the 101st--he's a medic

No matter what happened with that one individual in the story, the VAST majority of service members over there are good people doing tough jobs. I wish him the best of luck and safety. Brave young man, indeed.

E.Marquez · Post by **E.Marquez** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:15 am

There is some mis information here,,, as happens when the only source is what they feed you in the US.
I can not say anything that is not open source,, I just do not look good in Orange Jump suites.

But if you ask a specific question from info you find in open source, I can try and expand or clarify it with additional info.
As with the book burning deal.... theirs truth, lies, mistakes of early reporting and then there is accuracy and many times what you read in the news is none or a mix of all.

One CIVCAS is too many... even when it's a norm and expected..from combat operations. This was not that.

Heartland Patriot · Post by **Heartland Patriot** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:31 am

bronco78 wrote:There is some mis information here,,, as happens when the only source is what they feed you in the US.
I can not say anything that is not open source,, I just do not look good in Orange Jump suites.

But if you ask a specific question from info you find in open source, I can try and expand or clarify it with additional info.
As with the book burning deal.... theirs truth, lies, mistakes of early reporting and then there is accuracy and many times what you read in the news is none or a mix of all.

One CIVCAS is too many... even when it's a norm and expected..from combat operations. This was not that.

Alright, since you are in a position to know...is it very easy to just walk off post there? I've been to the "AOR" a few times, but never where people shot at me...they still had VERY tight security, there was a "no-lone policy", and you had to have some sort of a pass or order to get off-post. I know how OPSEC works, so I don't want you to say anything that would put you in a bind. Good luck and stay safe.

E.Marquez · Post by **E.Marquez** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:28 am

Heartland Patriot wrote: is it very easy to just walk off post there?

There being the base in question...for this event.
Yes, no problem. The Afghan Security Force, ie Army, police, etc (ANSF) or Afghan Security Guard, Locals we vet and hire (ASG) would not stop a US Soldier.

Heartland Patriot wrote:I've been to the "AOR" a few times, but never where people shot at me...they still had VERY tight security, there was a "no-lone policy",

At a large FOB where you likely were from your description, true. The ECP guards would be enforcing the base policy or higher HQ policy.Although even that has exceptions, an ASG guard would not think twice if I walked up to an ECP on Bagram said good evening day in dari, and walked past him.. But that is a rank thing mostly.

At a smaller COPs, patrol bases, outposts. Not correct, a US Soldier would not be stopped or question.. More so when it's a special friends base. The farther you get from a Big FOB like Bagram, Salerno, Kandahar etc... while security is very high, it's focused on keeping the bad guys out,, not the good guys in. Folks on the pointy end of the stick.. do not need to be saved from them selves, like many on a large FOB do.

old farmer · Post by **old farmer** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:46 pm

Heartland Patriot wrote:My question is this: how did this guy get outside the wire without anyone noticing him leaving? He obviously took his rifle/carbine...but he left BY HIMSELF? He had to have gone through some sort of guarded checkpoint. I would imagine that the "buddy-system" AT MINIMUM would be required to go outside the wire in a hostile area...they didn't like anyone where I was, in a non-war-zone Middle Eastern nation, going "downtown" by ourselves...SOMETHING just isn't adding up here...call me paranoid, call me suspicious, whatever...I don't like this whole darned deal...I didn't like the whole darn deal with the burning of the religious stuff...I think the whole darned think stinks to the highest reaches...and just gives the powers-that-be more of an excuse AND credit with the public-at-large for pulling our forces out in a hurry...

EDITED TO EMPHASIZE THE IMPORTANT POINT!

E.Marquez · Post by **E.Marquez** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:50 pm

old farmer wrote:
Heartland Patriot wrote:My question is this: how did this guy get outside the wire without anyone noticing him leaving? He obviously took his rifle/carbine...but he left BY HIMSELF? He had to have gone through some sort of guarded checkpoint. I would imagine that the "buddy-system" AT MINIMUM would be required to go outside the wire in a hostile area...they didn't like anyone where I was, in a non-war-zone Middle Eastern nation, going "downtown" by ourselves...SOMETHING just isn't adding up here...call me paranoid, call me suspicious, whatever...I don't like this whole darned deal...I didn't like the whole darn deal with the burning of the religious stuff...I think the whole darned think stinks to the highest reaches...and just gives the powers-that-be more of an excuse AND credit with the public-at-large for pulling our forces out in a hurry...

EDITED TO EMPHASIZE THE IMPORTANT POINT!

See post directly above yours.
Re: Afghanistan
by bronco78 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:28 am

stroo · Post by **stroo** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:57 pm

This story doesn't make sense. This guy has deployed 3 times before this to Iraq and supports special operations. It doesn't make sense that a guy like that would suddenly snap walk off of any base by himself and kill a bunch of people. Not to say it couldn't happen but just doesn't make sense to me.

E.Marquez · Post by **E.Marquez** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:10 pm

stroo wrote:This story doesn't make sense. This guy has deployed 3 times before this to Iraq and supports special operations. It doesn't make sense that a guy like that would suddenly snap walk off of any base by himself and kill a bunch of people. Not to say it couldn't happen but just doesn't make sense to me.

1: This is not a SPECIAL Forces Soldier, nor a non Tabbed Soldier assigned to a SF unit. This is a regular army dude, in a Striker unit that had his company tasked to live on a SF base and provide logistics, administrative and some local security. Cooks, bakers and candle stick makers... as well as some basic infantryman folks.. that are used for security and such.. Once and awhile the SF team will ask the unit commander for a few guys to augment the team, drive a vehicle maybe, or be a medic, or crew served weapon gunner on the vehicle.

2: People who murder folks often are not seen as abnormal before they murder folks. This is no different as far as we know. " It doesn't make sense that a guy like that would suddenly snap walk off of any base by himself and kill a bunch of people" And why not, happens in every day life across the US, and after all that's what the military is made up of, great american Heroes, murders rapists , thugs and thieves from your home town, and every other across America..
Most are just great folks but like the other folks you have in your town, office, and car pool... that are not great folks, we have um in the Military as well.
Really, this is not a new and shocking event.. it has happened all though history, it has happened several of times in the US in the last 11 months I've been deployed.. It's only news today, because of the speed of media, and it sells copy.

Drjfiremedic · Post by **Drjfiremedic** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:43 pm

Teamless wrote:I certainly understand your wanting our men and women to be careful and I certainly second that!

But my issue is with the civilians... how do our service men and women know who the bad guys are, or more so, as we are not fighting a regular army, arent all civilians potentially the enemy?
I wish our military leaders (especially their Commander in Blunder Obama would let our people actually fight the war, and not put so many restrictions on our people

Exactly, They hide amungst their civilians, in civilian clothing... Every looks like the regular Joe, and the bad guy simultaniously.

Cowards.

bayouhazard · Post by **bayouhazard** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:33 am

It's a political problem not a military one. No disrespect to the military. It's not their fault the US government doesn't have the will to fight and win a war, nor the integrity to get off the pot if they're not going to move their bowels.

Hoosier Daddy · Post by **Hoosier Daddy** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:55 pm

I agree with him. Iraq and Afghanistan should pay for their own security forces. The US should not be picking up the bill.