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Excaliber wrote:

G.A. Heath wrote:Now remember that we are only seeing one side of this story, with that said based on what I have read I have to question the officers state of mind. Lets forget about the dog for the moment and look at what happened before the dog came into play. The officer pulls up to a scene where he believes a Domestic Disturbance is happening, guy comes from around back to great him and makes no threating moves, he draws gun and points it at guy. I know that Domestic Disturbance calls are extremely dangerous but drawing a weapon and pointing it at someone with out provocation is not something I think is taught to our officers. Now as I said before we are only seeing one side of this story and I would really like to read/see/hear the officers side as well.

I agree on both points.

The gentleman who lost his dog should file a formal complaint with the agency and insist on a full investigation of the facts.

If the account we have is true and complete, it looks like APD has a supervisor in need of some serious job coaching as well.

This is my heart as well. I am truely sorry for the mans loss of his dog. But what worries me more is that the police officer drew on a man who posed no threat to him simply for approaching him. That combined with the wrong address is the makings of a nightmare scenario of not a beloved pet killed but a person. Perhaps a bit of retraining for the police officer is in order. Additionly the leash laws dont't usually apply in ones own yard. Perhaps if he had not already drawn on the man he could have deployed pepper spray instead of bullets if he truely felt threatened.

Dave2 wrote:

gigag04 wrote:If simple leash laws are followed by owners, this becomes a non-issue.

Really? Leash laws? There's a law that says that my dog has to be on a leash while we're playing frisbee in my own backyard? Do my dogs also have to be leashed while they're in my house? I've got an idea... and I know this is a bit crazy, but how about, before killing anyone or anything, the responding officer checks the address of the home he or she is about to invade?

I don't know how the law is written where you live, but where I live (and I imagine most other places with leash laws) you would need to have them on a leash in your backyard - unless it is fenced.

What is so hard about restraining your dog? You may love your dog and believe it would never harm someone else but the rest of us don't know if that bark is a warm up to a bite or a lick.

Dave2 wrote:

gigag04 wrote:If simple leash laws are followed by owners, this becomes a non-issue.

Really? Leash laws?

Yes.

gigag04 wrote:

Dave2 wrote:

gigag04 wrote:If simple leash laws are followed by owners, this becomes a non-issue.

Really? Leash laws?

Yes.

So, are you saying that I must have my dog leashed inside my own fenced backyard?

I must have missed something really big here. IMHO I think the leash law excuse would only apply if the dog had left the property and approached the officer. The dog was still effectively contained on the property....and....

52.005 RESTRAINT
A. Restraint of Dogs. Pursuant to Section 826.014 of Chapter 826, Travis County hereby requires that:
1. It is the responsibility of each Owner to effectively restrain the Owner's dog, which means the dog must either be kept securely on the Owner's property so that the dog remains on the Owner's property or, if not on the Owner's property, on a leash of a length that will allow for the direct control of the dog by the Owner or the person in control of the dog (or otherwise contained, such as in a car, in a crate, etc.) .

No requirement for a leash on your own property, and in less someone can show me different there is no definition in the law for what "securely" means. If my dog won't leave the yard and I have no fence, that is secure. If my dog can jump a 6 foot fence, and I only have a 4 foot fence, that would not be secure.

Well, if you can hit the dog a tazer is a very effective tool. But I completely see Giga's POV, one and done or 15 chances?
The officer here had a broadside shot when the dog wasn't paying attention to him while focusing on the first cop. Everything worked out this time....
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZGUyMFPJRnU[/youtube]

Unless there is more to this story, this was definitely over the line. Overlooking shooting the dog for a moment, he supposedly drew on an unarmed man doing nothing more than walking through his own yard.

There is a lot we don’t know about this situation.

On the original domestic disturbance call, were there weapons reportedly involved?
How close to the officer was the subject when the officer pulled his gun?
Did the officer tell the subject to stop at least one time as the subject approached before drawing his gun?
How close to the officer was the dog when he shot it?

When I was with the Sherriff’s Dept, I had mental guidelines for most scenarios. I unsnapped and put my hand on my gun numerous times. I unholstered and held my gun down by my side a handful of times. I pointed my sidearm at a subject just three or four times.

Some of my mental guidelines were not to allow a subject within 10 feet of me until I knew the situation. I would unsnap and keep my hand on my gun, telling the subject to stop as he approached.

I would not allow a subject to put his hands in his pockets.

If a menacing dog was within 20 feet I would draw my sidearm and if the owner was present, tell them to control the animal.

These are just a few of my personal guidelines. Other officers guidelines may be different.

I feel sorry for the owner of the dog. I know what it is like to lose a beloved dog. But as I said there is a lot we don’t know about this situation and I will withhold condemning the officer. If the dog was within 15 feet, I might have fired too. I am sure most people know how quickly a dog can close that distance.

One last item, the officer should have verified the address. I carried a small recorder with me to make verbal notes such as the make model and LP of a car parked at a location if needed at a later time. I also recorded dispatches in case there was a question later as to whether I misunderstood an address or if it was read to me wrong.

gigag04 wrote:I've shot and killed one dog and pepper sprayed more than I can count while on the job. Not the highlight of my work, but I've seen enough dog bites to stop the threat of a dog first and ask questions later. If simple leash laws are followed by owners, this becomes a non-issue.

I shouldn't have to take a bite from a strangers dog before defending myself. That's just silly.

Also...Using a TASER on a dog...really? Have you deployed one before? It's a one shot deal and a much smaller target than a human torso. You can borrow mine and have a few tries under stress if you like. I'll go for my pistol...

1) Shoot first, "ask questions later" -- that's always a comforting policy for our local law enforcement to have, whom are supposed to protect us, not shoot first, "ask questions later."
2) Follow leash laws... expect leash laws weren't applicable in this situation because the dog was on his own property.
3) A stranger who is being held at gun point, on his own property, by a cop that wouldn't even let him restrain his dog.

it sounds like you might be the cop in question in this story? at the very least, it sounds like you're part of the problem of excessive police force when not required. I hope to God you're not a cop anywhere around North DFW

with all "due" respect

http://www.hillcountrynews.com/news/art ... f887a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thenick_ttu wrote:

gigag04 wrote:I've shot and killed one dog and pepper sprayed more than I can count while on the job. Not the highlight of my work, but I've seen enough dog bites to stop the threat of a dog first and ask questions later. If simple leash laws are followed by owners, this becomes a non-issue.

I shouldn't have to take a bite from a strangers dog before defending myself. That's just silly.

Also...Using a TASER on a dog...really? Have you deployed one before? It's a one shot deal and a much smaller target than a human torso. You can borrow mine and have a few tries under stress if you like. I'll go for my pistol...

1) Shoot first, "ask questions later" -- that's always a comforting policy for our local law enforcement to have, whom are supposed to protect us, not shoot first, "ask questions later."
2) Follow leash laws... expect leash laws weren't applicable in this situation because the dog was on his own property.
3) A stranger who is being held at gun point, on his own property, by a cop that wouldn't even let him restrain his dog.

it sounds like you might be the cop in question in this story? at the very least, it sounds like you're part of the problem of excessive police force when not required. I hope to God you're not a cop anywhere around North DFW

with all "due" respect

Have you ever ridden with a Police Officer? Some departments have “ride along” programs. If a department close to where you live has one, sign up, and ride along a few times. It might give you a different perspective.

VoiceofReason wrote:http://www.hillcountrynews.com/news/art ... f887a.html

I am not sure what your point is. Yes, dogs can and do bite. Yes, they can and do bite police officers. They also bite meter readers, electrical workers, postmen, etc etc etc. Would we find it acceptable for meter readers from the power company to shoot all dogs that barked aggressively at them? I doubt it. There are ways to handle barking dogs without killing them. When my husband worked as a designer (think power grid engineer) for a power company he was trained in how to keep from getting bitten. He had to go into peoples back yards and they would not always be home. He was not permitted to carry any weapon other than his clip board. Guess what--he was never ever bitten! Chased once or twice, but not bitten.


There are several things I find disturbing here beyond the dog being killed. #1 The officer apparently drew on the man rather quickly and with apparently precious little cause. We need police with clear cool heads, not people amped up to the point of drawing on a man for being in his yard because they are nervous about the call. #2 While he is at the wrong address and killing a dog what is happening at the house he was supposed to be at? Is some woman being beat to death by an ex or a father being killed by a son on drugs? Surely the Austin police department can afford gps for their cruisers?!?

thenick_ttu wrote:

gigag04 wrote:I've shot and killed one dog and pepper sprayed more than I can count while on the job. Not the highlight of my work, but I've seen enough dog bites to stop the threat of a dog first and ask questions later. If simple leash laws are followed by owners, this becomes a non-issue.

I shouldn't have to take a bite from a strangers dog before defending myself. That's just silly.

Also...Using a TASER on a dog...really? Have you deployed one before? It's a one shot deal and a much smaller target than a human torso. You can borrow mine and have a few tries under stress if you like. I'll go for my pistol...

1) Shoot first, "ask questions later" -- that's always a comforting policy for our local law enforcement to have, whom are supposed to protect us, not shoot first, "ask questions later."
2) Follow leash laws... expect leash laws weren't applicable in this situation because the dog was on his own property.
3) A stranger who is being held at gun point, on his own property, by a cop that wouldn't even let him restrain his dog.

it sounds like you might be the cop in question in this story? at the very least, it sounds like you're part of the problem of excessive police force when not required. I hope to God you're not a cop anywhere around North DFW

with all "due" respect

There are rules on this forum about how you treat LEO and other forum members. You might want to re-read them as a refresher. Gigag04 is a respected member of this forum and an accomplished LEO and is due all respect without the quotation marks.

Anygunanywhere

thenick_ttu wrote:with all "due" respect

Do you really think this makes a personal attack in violation of Forum rules okay? Stop now.

Chas.