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Right2Carry wrote:I went today and wish I could get my time back. I wasn't impressed at all with this show and the vendors present. Gun shows IMHO are fast becoming a waste of time and money, they didn't even reimburse for parking this time.

C-dub wrote:

tacticool wrote:

C-dub wrote:BTW, for those going, they do have a large 30.06 sign out in front of the entrance. There were two lines, one for those with guns that needed to have one of the two FWPD officers check and zip tie them and another line for those without guns. NO metal detectors! So, for all you dissenters with money to face the challenge and step up to be our test case you could get "discovered" and see if they will really arrest and charge you with a 30.06 violation in a city owned facility.

Or you could boycott businesses that post 30.06 signs no matter if they're restaurants, movie theaters, or gun shows.

I wouldn't have gone today had I not been looking for a rifle. And I didn't feel like arguing about it or becoming a test case, so I just left it all in the car. Interestingly, though, I don't think they were confiscating ammo like I saw them doing at the last show I went to in Dallas 10+ years ago. Then, I remember seeing a large container, like a 5 gallon water jug, that they were making everyone empty their magazines into if they didn't want to take it back to the car. It was right after I got my CHL and I went ahead and let them zip tie my gun because I was there to check out holsters, but I did take my mags and ammo back to the car.

I didn't know if they would be posted or not until I saw the sign. Being new to all this, I didn't understand the purpose of the 'check your gun' line. I reluctantly submitted, pulled the magazine and emptied the chamber. The policemen told me I would need to secure the ammo in my car (actually my bike). I decided to go ahead and keep the Glock with me. As the two policemen were zip tying the gun, I decided to question them a little;
Me I was under the impression this was city property, so was an exemption to the 30.06 law; how can they post on city property?
P1 They've properly posted a 30.06 sign
P2 If you're talking CHL stuff , they've had problems in the past with CHL holders accidentally firing, so they don't allow it anymore.

I really didn't believe him, but didn't pursue that path
Me But that doesn't over-ride the law, does it?
P1 The people leasing the property can prohibit carrying, it's their choice
Me But that's not what the law says
P1 You really need to move on sir
P2 (as he finished zip-tying my gun) Thanks for understanding sir
Me (very calmly) Oh no, I don't understand. I'm complying, but I don't understand

Then I noticed the sign on their table that said "we reserve the right to refuse entrance to ANYONE" (their emphasis) And decided it wouldn't be prudent to ask if accidental police discharges precluded the police from being armed. Seriously, I wouldn't have done THAT but felt I'd pushed enough as a noob.

I did pick up some X.Grips, some targets, and a rubber band gun for my 9 year old grandson. I couldn't help but grin at the way he put it in his waist at 4:00, and pulled his shirt over it (like mine, but of course I have a holster). I told him grandma would make him one.

Overall, it was worth the trip (and price) just to see the look on my daughter's face when I told her I bought him a gun.

For the most part it is futile to argue with an LEO about the law. Especially in this situation. They either really believe that the show organizers can post this sign on city property in spite of the law or they just don't care and would rather be somewhere else anyway.

Regarding the "we reserve the right to refuse entrance to ANYONE" sign: they can't refuse entrance to someone for carrying a concealed handgun if it is concealed because they won't know about it. There were no metal detectors to walk through at this show.

C-dub wrote:For the most part it is futile to argue with an LEO about the law. Especially in this situation. They either really believe that the show organizers can post this sign on city property in spite of the law or they just don't care and would rather be somewhere else anyway.

Regarding the "we reserve the right to refuse entrance to ANYONE" sign: they can't refuse entrance to someone for carrying a concealed handgun if it is concealed because they won't know about it. There were no metal detectors to walk through at this show.

Yeah, I figured out after the fact that if I'd really wanted to carry loaded, and really wanted to risk the possibilities, I should have just walked through the regular "no gun" entrance. To be honest, I was more bothered by the principle than the fear of needing a gun inside, but what I didn't want to do was leave the Glock in a relatively unsecure saddlebag (yeah, the have locks, but the locks are a joke).

My comment about the "refuse entrance" sign was because I noticed it as I was getting slighly (but only very slightly) "confrontational" with the cops. One was obviously irritated, I got the impression from the other one (P2) that he really did feel the sign shouldn't be there, but felt obligated to do what he was being paid to do.

It's been 20+ years since I've been to a gunshow - the last time was just a quick "look see" at a center where we had a computer exhibit in the other side of the building. I went primarily because I figured someone would have x-grips in stock so I could actually see them (that worked), I wanted to take my grandson to it (he was happy), and I thought I might see some really good deals on guns (not so much, though I did see some interesting guns).

I'm still sort of mulling this all over. I didn't like the experience of having my gun taken away. I wonder what would have happened had I insisted on a refund for the $5 parking.

BTW, the x-grips were for those three "recently acquired" 15 round magazines

Right2Carry wrote:I went today and wish I could get my time back. I wasn't impressed at all with this show and the vendors present. Gun shows IMHO are fast becoming a waste of time and money, they didn't even reimburse for parking this time.

We get a gun show in the Will Rogers complex about every other month. The Original Fort Worth Gun Show is run by a different group than the Lone Star Gun Show. The Original is the one that refunds your parking fee, and they usually sell one row (column? depends on your orientation) of vendor's tables, meaning that there's a little more space to walk the aisles. Many of the vendors are also different - I was told, but have no way of confirming, that The Original folks refuse to sell vendor tables to some vendors with which they have had trouble in the past - either directly or through customer complaints. But again, whether that's true or not...

Personally, I don't go to the Lone Star shows any more - been a couple of times and seem to find dealers with better attitudes and a bit friendlier at the Original. YMMV

And, whether they're a waste of time is IMHO about what you expect - I've done enough ham radio "sidewalk sales" and other types of craft shows that I figure that if I find what I want at a reasonable price at a gun show, I can buy it there and get immediate gratification, or I can do the internet shopping route, pay a lowball price, and sometimes get lowball service. Owell...

YEUP.....my second impression was as bad as my first. I only needed one part to complete my AR build and found it. It was still a poor show and only took me 1.5hr to walk it all.

I've been present for 3 NDs at gun shows. 2 I know were venders but not sure of the other one. 1 for sure was showing off his carry gun and managed to pull the trigger twice.

ScooterSissy wrote:Then I noticed the sign on their table that said "we reserve the right to refuse entrance to ANYONE" (their emphasis) And decided it wouldn't be prudent to ask if accidental police discharges precluded the police from being armed. Seriously, I wouldn't have done THAT but felt I'd pushed enough as a noob.

I wonder if they can refuse entrance to black people? Anybody with a tattoo or long hair? Yeah, they say they reserve the right to refuse entrance to "ANYONE" but the law doesn't really allow them to, particularly when leasing a government owned facility. How quickly would the ACLU be up their rectums if they refused entrance to, say, Middle Eastern looking individuals? Why is it any different for CHL holders, who, as I read the law, can't be barred from entering government owned buildings with certain limited, specified exceptions?

The Saxet show here in Austin does the same thing. It's in a county owned building and they post a 30.06 at the door. Austin City Hall has one posted also, whether or not there's a Council meeting going on, and as far as I know there are no courts in the building. I don't know how they get away with it.

Scott Farkus wrote:

ScooterSissy wrote:Then I noticed the sign on their table that said "we reserve the right to refuse entrance to ANYONE" (their emphasis) And decided it wouldn't be prudent to ask if accidental police discharges precluded the police from being armed. Seriously, I wouldn't have done THAT but felt I'd pushed enough as a noob.

I wonder if they can refuse entrance to black people? Anybody with a tattoo or long hair? Yeah, they say they reserve the right to refuse entrance to "ANYONE" but the law doesn't really allow them to, particularly when leasing a government owned facility. How quickly would the ACLU be up their rectums if they refused entrance to, say, Middle Eastern looking individuals? Why is it any different for CHL holders, who, as I read the law, can't be barred from entering government owned buildings with certain limited, specified exceptions?

The Saxet show here in Austin does the same thing. It's in a county owned building and they post a 30.06 at the door. Austin City Hall has one posted also, whether or not there's a Council meeting going on, and as far as I know there are no courts in the building. I don't know how they get away with it.

The problem here Scott is that we all know the sign is unenforceable and the city and show organizers might also, but they are relying on the fact that CHL's as a whole are more law abiding than average citizen and sometimes even more than the police themselves. People have asked they city about this and they insist that the show organizers have leased the space and can do whatever they want. They even hire several police officers to work the show and intimidate us by saying that we cannot carry our concealed handguns into the show. They are just daring us. The problem with that is what it will take to proof them wrong. I'm not willing to go through being arrested and going to jail and then to court to prove our point.