Delta sued for gun-related arrest

[KC5AV]

Okay, a little bit OT, but I think I've met this guy. Actually, he was a VP at my alma mater (East Texas Baptist University).

[baldeagle]

You guys can argue he should have know the law all you want. I still disagree. And here's why.

Benedetto's lawsuit says that when he declared that he had an unloaded handgun in a locked case inside his checked luggage, as required by the Transportation Security Administration and Delta Air Lines policy, a Delta ticket agent called the New York-New Jersey Port Authority Police and he was arrested.

He's required by Delta Airlines policy to declare the firearm. By policy Delta agents must report him to NYC police. Therefore, Delta is responsible for telling him, when he declares the firearm at his departure point, that he can't do that without running afoul of NYC "law" at his destination.

Think about what's going on here. He declares his firearm in SD. He flies to NY, gets his luggage and goes to his destination. Once he's completed the purpose of his trip, he returns to La Guardia and, following Delta procedure, declares his weapon, at which point Delta turns him in to port authority, and he is promptly arrested. Yes, he should know NY's gun laws if he's traveling there. But Delta also has a duty to inform him that he cannot travel to NYC with a firearm.

Do you seriously think that if any other airport had restrictions which Delta honored, that they wouldn't have a duty to tell their customers upfront? For example, if a city has outlawed alcohol and the traveler is carrying alcohol in his luggage, does Delta have no responsibility to tell the customer that their policy is to turn him in to law enforcement as soon as he is detected with the alcohol?

On a side note, I would like Texas to pass a law that does not honor NY permits and further says any NY resident traveling to or through our state with a firearm will be promptly arrested.

[sjfcontrol]

You guys can argue he should have know the law all you want. I still disagree. And here's why.

Benedetto's lawsuit says that when he declared that he had an unloaded handgun in a locked case inside his checked luggage, as required by the Transportation Security Administration and Delta Air Lines policy, a Delta ticket agent called the New York-New Jersey Port Authority Police and he was arrested.

He's required by Delta Airlines policy to declare the firearm. By policy Delta agents must report him to NYC police. Therefore, Delta is responsible for telling him, when he declares the firearm at his departure point, that he can't do that without running afoul of NYC "law" at his destination.

Think about what's going on here. He declares his firearm in SD. He flies to NY, gets his luggage and goes to his destination. Once he's completed the purpose of his trip, he returns to La Guardia and, following Delta procedure, declares his weapon, at which point Delta turns him in to port authority, and he is promptly arrested. Yes, he should know NY's gun laws if he's traveling there. But Delta also has a duty to inform him that he cannot travel to NYC with a firearm.

Do you seriously think that if any other airport had restrictions which Delta honored, that they wouldn't have a duty to tell their customers upfront? For example, if a city has outlawed alcohol and the traveler is carrying alcohol in his luggage, does Delta have no responsibility to tell the customer that their policy is to turn him in to law enforcement as soon as he is detected with the alcohol?

On a side note, I would like Texas to pass a law that does not honor NY permits and further says any NY resident traveling to or through our state with a firearm will be promptly arrested.

Maybe we should just say that any New York mayors or governors will immediately be arrested whether or not they're armed. Sound more reasonable to me! :txflag

Edit -- should probably include senators and representatives, too!

[apostate]

You guys can argue he should have know the law all you want. I still disagree. And here's why.

Benedetto's lawsuit says that when he declared that he had an unloaded handgun in a locked case inside his checked luggage, as required by the Transportation Security Administration and Delta Air Lines policy, a Delta ticket agent called the New York-New Jersey Port Authority Police and he was arrested.

He's required by Delta Airlines policy to declare the firearm. By policy Delta agents must report him to NYC police. Therefore, Delta is responsible for telling him, when he declares the firearm at his departure point, that he can't do that without running afoul of NYC "law" at his destination.

Think about what's going on here. He declares his firearm in SD. He flies to NY, gets his luggage and goes to his destination. Once he's completed the purpose of his trip, he returns to La Guardia and, following Delta procedure, declares his weapon, at which point Delta turns him in to port authority, and he is promptly arrested. Yes, he should know NY's gun laws if he's traveling there. But Delta also has a duty to inform him that he cannot travel to NYC with a firearm.

For the sake of playing Devil's Advocate:

Hospitals routinely report gunshot wounds to the police. Does a hospital have a duty to inform a gunshot victim the police will be notified, and must they do so before the patient provides the hospital with their name or other PII?

[Jumping Frog]

If I travel to NH, I must go through NY and pay to cross one of NY's bridges. The Port Authority police who man those bridges have declared the Federal standards null and void and if I were detected, I could be arrested as this traveler was. I have a similar problem in getting to PA when going through Maryland. Even though they don't have bridges, Maryland LE has been very clear that they don't recognize the Federal standards either.

You are clearly covered under FOPA in the two examples you give, assuming the guns are transported in accordance with the statute.

That doesn't mean a banana republic-style government couldn't illegally charge you anyway, but you would be correct.

[chasfm11]

You are clearly covered under FOPA in the two examples you give, assuming the guns are transported in accordance with the statute.

That doesn't mean a banana republic-style government couldn't illegally charge you anyway, but you would be correct.

Yes, I understand the FOPA requirements and am set up to comply with them. Maryland isn't as much of a problem because we are in it such a short time that the odds an incident where the guns were detected are insignificant.

In NY and NY, there is no love for Texans so our license plates are a magnet. Any kind of a stop would most likely yield questions about whether or not we had guns. After all, doesn't everyone from Texas?

And calling NY a banana republic is sure get them upset....the banana republics, that is.

[gigag04]

On a side note, I would like Texas to pass a law that does not honor NY permits and further says any NY resident traveling to or through our state with a firearm will be promptly arrested.

That seems like punishing our fellow 2A enthusiasts in NY...and advocating more oppressive gun control laws here in TX.

[jimlongley]

On a side note, I would like Texas to pass a law that does not honor NY permits and further says any NY resident traveling to or through our state with a firearm will be promptly arrested.

That seems like punishing our fellow 2A enthusiasts in NY...and advocating more oppressive gun control laws here in TX.

And having been forced to live there for an awfully long time after my Yankee Carpetbagger parents kidnapped me from my native San Antonio, I can assure you that, at least upstate, which is a whole different world than the city, there are a lot of "2A enthusiasts."

Here is another problem I have with this scenario. NY Port Authority officials have stated that no arrests will take place if the trip is "continuous" under FOPA, but that that does not include such things as inadvertent overnight stays due to flight issues. Does the Delta idiot know where the return trip started? I think not, s/he (and with some Delta agents it's hard to tell) just called the cops because the passenger declared a gun, and I'll bet the cops didn't take it into consideration either.

Decades ago I was a member of an organization whose purpose was to split off NYCity from the rest of the state and either have it made into a "District" lie DC or another state. Our organization was not powerful enough to attract much notice beyond the "Look at these crackpots." articles in the news, and after some period of stagnation rather than growth, we fell apart and went back to our gun and hunting clubs, so NYCity still rules the state, just like the blue states will run our nation if we are not successful in throwing bambam and his minions out this fall.

Our republic was founded on principles that attempted to do away with power heavy areas, but in our swing to "democracy" we have lost sight of those principles, and thus NYCity, Chicago, LA and other megatropolises get to exert influence far beyond that which should be granted them, and IMHO they shout be parted from their states and made to make their own ways in our nation. Not saying they still wouldn't be able to bring to bear undue amounts of influence, but it would allow the various states to get out from under them and move all of their efforts to the federal level.

If NYCity was separate from NY State, I would be willing to bet that the state would be shall issue and traveler friendly.

[howdy]

As a retired Delta employee (Pilot), I can tell you Delta gets sued for "allowing" a baby to puke on it's Mother. This is just another lawsuit that will go to the huge legal department to be handled. It is the cost of doing business. Delta flys to every State in the Union and to many other countries. We know about NYC because we read this forum and we assume everyone knows that NYC is not gun friendly. A ticket agent in Houston knows the rules for checking a gun in Houston but he does not know the law in every state and country. He may not own a gun and not have a clue that there could be a problem. That is the passengers responsibility. It is not Deltas' rule that guns be declared or that the police be called... it is either the local or Federal law that require this. The agent will handle many passengers in a day (some are not very nice, they smell, they lie about family emergencies trying to get a cheaper fare, etc.) and they just don't have the time to hold someone's hand on every little thing. It is easy to sue. He is hoping for a settlement with a cash payout. This guy is a University President and he should be smarter than this. HE should take responsibility for his actions. That is something lacking in our society today.

[speedsix]

...when it comes to the responsibility of carrying/transporting a gun...I don't trust anyone else to know/remember/correctly relay to me the laws...I value my carry permit enough to do the research...and be able to back up in law what I do or don't do...and if I do something wrong...it's on me....this suit is about money...the outcome won't make a whit of difference to the Gnu Yawk City authorities...or his criminal record...

[baldeagle]

You guys can argue he should have know the law all you want. I still disagree. And here's why.

Benedetto's lawsuit says that when he declared that he had an unloaded handgun in a locked case inside his checked luggage, as required by the Transportation Security Administration and Delta Air Lines policy, a Delta ticket agent called the New York-New Jersey Port Authority Police and he was arrested.

He's required by Delta Airlines policy to declare the firearm. By policy Delta agents must report him to NYC police. Therefore, Delta is responsible for telling him, when he declares the firearm at his departure point, that he can't do that without running afoul of NYC "law" at his destination.

Think about what's going on here. He declares his firearm in SD. He flies to NY, gets his luggage and goes to his destination. Once he's completed the purpose of his trip, he returns to La Guardia and, following Delta procedure, declares his weapon, at which point Delta turns him in to port authority, and he is promptly arrested. Yes, he should know NY's gun laws if he's traveling there. But Delta also has a duty to inform him that he cannot travel to NYC with a firearm.

For the sake of playing Devil's Advocate:

Hospitals routinely report gunshot wounds to the police. Does a hospital have a duty to inform a gunshot victim the police will be notified, and must they do so before the patient provides the hospital with their name or other PII?

The difference in the two is that the gunshot would have occurred outside the hospital's purview and control, whereas Delta sent their passenger to NYC knowing full well that they would report him on the return trip. If you want to make the two analogous, the gunshot wound would have to occur after the hospital had already told the prospective patient that if he gets shot, they will report it and the gunshot wound would have to occur within the hospital.

[smoothoperator]

On a side note, I would like Texas to pass a law that does not honor NY permits and further says any NY resident traveling to or through our state with a firearm will be promptly arrested.

That seems like punishing our fellow 2A enthusiasts in NY...and advocating more oppressive gun control laws here in TX.

The people being oppressed in NY are not the enemy.

However, if a NY cop catches a Texan with a gun in NY, he would take away the gun, handcuff the Texan, and throw him in a cell with a bunch of animals.

So, if Texans catch a NY cop with a gun in Texas, they would take away his gun, handcuff him, and throw him in a bayou with a bunch of alligators.

Sauce for the goose.

[speedsix]

...Texas alligators won't eat just ANYthing...

[smoothoperator]

If you want to make the two analogous, the gunshot wound would have to occur after the hospital had already told the prospective patient that if he gets shot, they will report it and the gunshot wound would have to occur within the hospital.

Unless things are very different in NY airports he didn't buy the gun from Delta. He had it in New York before he walked into the airport, same as the patient had the GSW before walking into the hospital.

[C-dub]

As a retired Delta employee (Pilot), I can tell you Delta gets sued for "allowing" a baby to puke on it's Mother. This is just another lawsuit that will go to the huge legal department to be handled. It is the cost of doing business. Delta flys to every State in the Union and to many other countries. We know about NYC because we read this forum and we assume everyone knows that NYC is not gun friendly. A ticket agent in Houston knows the rules for checking a gun in Houston but he does not know the law in every state and country. He may not own a gun and not have a clue that there could be a problem. That is the passengers responsibility. It is not Deltas' rule that guns be declared or that the police be called... it is either the local or Federal law that require this. The agent will handle many passengers in a day (some are not very nice, they smell, they lie about family emergencies trying to get a cheaper fare, etc.) and they just don't have the time to hold someone's hand on every little thing. It is easy to sue. He is hoping for a settlement with a cash payout. This guy is a University President and he should be smarter than this. HE should take responsibility for his actions. That is something lacking in our society today.

Yup. Checking a weapon in at the terminal is not against the law. It, actually, is the law when flying with it, right? I think they should be held liable for his arrest. I don't understand why they care, since they have no idea if he broke a law or not. The state needs to fix that horrendous law and stop making criminals out of honest citizens.

...when it comes to the responsibility of carrying/transporting a gun...I don't trust anyone else to know/remember/correctly relay to me the laws...I value my carry permit enough to do the research...and be able to back up in law what I do or don't do...and if I do something wrong...it's on me....this suit is about money...the outcome won't make a whit of difference to the Gnu Yawk City authorities...or his criminal record...

And yup.

The President should have known. Maybe his destination was in NYC.

I lived in upstate NY for four years. Not my choice, parents moved there and dragged me along. I didn't know any better and didn't care. I had a GREAT time in all the mountains and in high school. Went to NYC a few times and have no desire to ever go back.