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Glockamolie wrote:A radiator shot will take quite a while to disable a car completely. Ever been to a destruction derby? The goal there is to hit the opponent's car in the front (radiator) with the rear of your car. You can see cars bleeding coolant out and shooting steam and still driving for quite a long time before they'll actually go no further.

Memories of Islip Speedway in the 50s and 60s, figure eight races too.

Depending on the car the potential is there to drive it quite a distance. My little car, some years back, lost its coolant when the engine mount busted and tore the hose. I didn't notice it at the time, except for it making a funny clunking noise at start up, and drove it for a couple of weeks without noticing any overheating problem, it was getting air cooled pretty well.

OTOH, my late wife's car, an Audi 5000 suicide special (remember the '85s that had the rep for uncontrolled acceleration) would throw a fit if the coolant was a pint low. We carried a gallon of premix in the trunk for 127,000 miles.

Without getting off into all the technical crap I think that depending on disabling a vehicle by shooting the radiator is questionable at best.

Chris wrote:the only way to kill a car is to shoot the fuel pump, but i'm sure everyone can see the difficulties in making that shot.

and the danger of such a shot.

fuel pump, fuel lines, intake, master cylinder, ect will all disable a vehicle more or less instantly.

' Just in from a CHL renewal class. I sorta had one eye open for our Precinct 4 day-shift Constable Deputy to be at range tonight so I could question him of more detail. I'm curious to see how our new DA's office feels about this one ...

If the original incident happened in Argyle proper, I guess it's only maybe a 5 to 7 mile drive west on 407 to 35-W, so the car may have "bled out" pretty quickly ...

Some of y'all may recall the incident within the last year out on interstate near Weatherford. DPS Super-Shamu pulled up alongside driver's door of hijacked tractor/trailer rig so Trooper in passenger seat could use long gun to put multiple "quartering away" shots through radiator. That truck bled out real quickly ...

It said it began at the 800 block of Knob Hill Ct. According to google thats about 25 miles from 407 and I-35.

Newer GM vehicles will shut off the fuel injectors for certain cylinders if it looses coolant. Many vehicles come with a 50 miles @ 50 mph guarentee when a coolant loss occurs.

Cars are very tough, the only way I can see one breaking quickly after coolant loss would be very high RPMs.

Will: Ya sure that Google search was not based upon I-35E (in Lewisville) instead of I-35W? The house location seems to be not too far from Robson Ranch, an "active adult" community on southwest edge of Denton. "Argyle", however does cover a lot of real estate. While our range is on the opposite corner of "Argyle" from the shooter and is in an unincorporated area, our mail route is still required as "Argyle 76226".

What I found using Expedia:

Search Results
From: 800 Knob Hill Ct, Argyle, TX, 76226-1727
To: I-35W & FM-407 W, Argyle, TX, 76226

Directions Distance Time
Start: Depart Start on Knob Hill Ct (West) 0.1 < 1min
1: Turn RIGHT (North) onto C Taylor Rd, then immediately turn LEFT (West) onto Crawford Rd 0.2 0:02
2: Keep STRAIGHT onto Crawford Rd [Robson Ranch Rd] 0.1 < 1min
3: Take Ramp (LEFT) onto I-35W (I-35W) 2.0 0:02
4: At exit 76, turn RIGHT onto Ramp (FM-407 / Argyle / Justin) 0.3 < 1min
5: Turn LEFT (East) onto FM-407 W 0.1 < 1min
End: Arrive End < 0.1 < 1min
Total Route 2.8 mi 4 mins

that would make a lot more sense.

So the guy said that he was trying to shoot the radiator to disable the vehicle? Is that legal?

jimlongley wrote:Without getting off into all the technical crap I think that depending on disabling a vehicle by shooting the radiator is questionable at best.

Due to a family emergency, I once drove an '87 Plymouth Horizon (2.4L 4 cyl engine) 175 miles with a blown head gasket and almost no coolant, at 85+ on the interstate. I pulled into a station at 0400, bought gas, and ducked the violent steam explosion as I added water to the radiator. Got a few quarts in, capped it off, and continued on.

Car continued running fine for a few more years as a daily driver on short commutes, so long as I kept an eye on the coolant level.

Sad part is, after I finally ponied up $1500 for the head job, it was totaled in a wreck about two months later.

Kevin

Chris wrote:the only way to kill a car is to shoot the fuel pump, but i'm sure everyone can see the difficulties in making that shot.

There are a view vital organs, The CNS (computer ignition system) carbarator, or fuel injection meterering. Most engine blocks are made of aluminum and will spald off some shrapnal. The loose nut behind the steering wheel still remains the most obvious target.

If you pop the radiator, the vehicle will eventually stop due to coolant loss and overheating. Still, there are many factors that go into determining how soon the vehicle will stop as a result of the radiator being shot. In this guy's case, the vehicle still got the thief away from the immediate "threat."

Talk of shooting out small, potentially armored parts like fuel pumps, master cylinders or carburators might be asking a bit much. These parts tend to be behind several layers of steel or other structures in the vehicle and usually represent very small targets. Their positions in vehicles vary enough that you'd be hard pressed to successfully hit them unless you were intimately aware of the specific vehicle's anatomy. Like shooting down helicopters, the fastest way to bring things to a halt with small arms will be incapacitating the driver.

Many of the newer vehicles have programming in the computer to allow it to alternate cylinders firing to keep the engine cool by pumping air in those not firing. They will go quite some ways with out coolant.

Most cylinder blocks are still cast iron of some sort. Aluminum is beginning to be more popular, but most are iron.

There are various vital systems that can shut down a vehicle. But most in my opinion are not real practical targets for civilian firearms. It they were we might not see the extended Police chases we see on TV all the time. Most of those systems or items are located behind other items that will take A LOT of the energy and likely mass from the projectile. Most would of these items or systems leave a lot of room for a missed shot also.

Argyle Messenger hit the mailbox today. It sez the BG is Robert Christopher Sanders, 38, of Rockwall. It said he remained in gray bar hotel on $25K for this burglary and another 10K for one in Ellis County.

Records show he'd been in the Denton hotel back in March of 2004 for "displaying a fake vehicle inspection" and Mary G. Wanna. Rockwall county records showed he was a guest there in '04, '05, '06. Seems to me the man got lucky not winding up in the obituary column in Feb. '07.

yeah, this whole thing is close enough to where I are, that it are re-dunk-ulous.

what a trip. could be a new car advertisement:
"Our car will run with a bullet riddled radiator!!!"

word.

With my Expedia saying only "2.8 miles", it musta been a .45.