Shades of Grey

[Excaliber]

Excaliber - I think that the scenario with the dog is pretty far fetched, but please consider this:

You and another unit respond to a burglary in progress. Upon arrival you spot a suspect climbing out a window with a pillowcase full of loot. You draw your weapon and point it at the suspect and tell him to put his hands in the air. He drops the bag and puts his hands in the air. You continue to keep the BG in your sights. Right now, I am not sure about your training, but I assume you have your finger on the trigger.

Unknown to you, your partner spots a second suspect out of your field of view. This suspect points a gun at your partner, who pulls the trigger of his shotgun and shoots the BG.

The noise and concussion from your partner's shotgun causes you to flinch and pull the trigger and shoot the BG who is standing with his hands in the air.

What is the ruling on this shoot?

If I or anyone I know were the investigator, it would be ruled negligence on the part of the officer who had his finger on the trigger when he hadn't made a decision to shoot.

Reflexive hand clenching in response to a loud noise, a loss of balance, or other causes is well known and has caused many negligent discharges in the past. Keeping the finger outside the trigger guard until the decision point was being taught in good firearms training programs (including in my agency) since the late 1980's. There isn't much of an excuse for creating such a hazard 25 or so years after the issue was well understood.

The dog causing the gun to fire is not at all far fetched. There have been a number of accidents like this, primarily among hunters who had put the gun down in a pickup bed, leaned against a fencepost, etc. without unloading the chamber first. A fairly typical incident of this type can be found here.

Sorry, I was thinking about a K9 officer, not a hunting incident.

What about a person not trained as an LEO about the hazards of keeping the finger outside the trigger guard? Should they be held to the same standard as an LEO?

Everyone should be held to complying with the 4 basic rules of firearms safety, and the topic is covered quite well in Rule 3. As I see it, not knowing all of the reasons for each rule doesn't provide any immunity from responsibility.

[SQLGeek]

I thought this thread was going to be about the book 50 Shades of Grey. I was really curious to see what you all had to say about it.

[WildBill]

What about a person not trained as an LEO about the hazards of keeping the finger outside the trigger guard? Should they be held to the same standard as an LEO?

Every gun owner should know Cooper's four safety rules. To not know them is being negligently ignorant.

I had never heard that term.

[RPB]

What about a person not trained as an LEO about the hazards of keeping the finger outside the trigger guard? Should they be held to the same standard as an LEO?

Every gun owner should know Cooper's four safety rules. To not know them is being negligently ignorant.

I had never heard that term.

I'll probably regret interjecting

Sounds synonymous with; or perhaps the term is ... "Willful Blindness" or ... ignoring the obvious or disregarding common sense which should be obvious like "that's a switch, don't flip it unless you want the result of the switch pulling.
https://www.google.com/search?q=willful ... =firefox-a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willful_blindness" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Such defences have not succeeded, as courts have been quick to determine that the defendant should have known what was in the package and exercised criminal recklessness by failing to find out.

Like "Absolve me because I didn't read the instructions"... on purpose so I wouldn't be liable ...

It went bang wehen I pulled the trigger ... Whodda thunk it?

Though I do believe some may be "accidental" discharges from dropping and not being informed (not in the instructions) that grandpa's Potmetal $35.00 Davis/Jennings 380. had no drop safety/firing pin block etc. or that a North American Arms revolver has those extra notches in the cylinder and what they are for if they bought used with no instructions ..so they leave a hammer over a live round with no hammer block and it goes boom when dropped; much to their surprise. Yes, they should research the firearm they buy or get given before carry ... I do not know if "people do" (kinda doubt it) but IMHO ... "a reasonable person should" However the more I find out about people, the less I except them to be "reasonable" .... look who got elected by a majority of people ... sadly, "reasonable people" are rarer than we think.

[WildBill]

What about a person not trained as an LEO about the hazards of keeping the finger outside the trigger guard? Should they be held to the same standard as an LEO?

Every gun owner should know Cooper's four safety rules. To not know them is being negligently ignorant.

I had never heard that term.

I'll probably regret interjecting

You won't get any flak from me.